Derrick and Rosalind were faithful, active members of Greater Cornerstone Baptist Church. They were not prepared for the role, but they accepted the call of God and the church to become the lead pastors.
It isn’t always easy, but they have learned how to balance family, secular employment, and the rigors of ministry. Their story will help you to understand how it can all work together for good.
Derrick and Rosalind were faithful, active members of Greater Cornerstone Baptist Church. They were not prepared for the role, but they accepted the call of God and the church to become the lead pastors.
It isn’t always easy, but they have learned how to balance family, secular employment, and the rigors of ministry. Their story will help you to understand how it can all work together for good.
Announcer (00:00):
Welcome to the DoorWays® Ministry Network podcast.
Ric Shields (00:12):
Thank you for joining us on this podcast. I'm Ric Shields, your host, and I'm the director of the DoorWays® Ministry Network. On this episode, I'm talking with my friend Rosalind Williams, who with her husband Derrick. I've known them for 20 years, I think. And when I first met them, they were two of the many faithful and active members of Greater Cornerstone Baptist Church and a part of West Tulsa known as South Haven.
(00:35):
Well, God had bigger plans for them than they had imagined. They're still active members, very active members. In fact, since April of 2015, they've served in the pastoral leadership role at Greater Cornerstone Baptist Church in Tulsa. So, thank you, Rosalind, for joining me today.
Roz Williams (00:51):
Well, thank you for having me. It's my pleasure.
Ric Shields (00:54):
Well, if it's okay with you, I'd like to call you Roz.
Roz Williams (00:57):
Absolutely, go right ahead.
Ric Shields (00:59):
Greater Cornerstone Baptist Church has a long history in Tulsa. In fact, I think it's in three years, you're set to celebrate the 100-year anniversary since the church is organized. Are you making any plans to celebrate that?
Roz Williams (01:14):
You know, there are some preliminary conversations that are going on with that. Our hope, you know, and focus more than anything is just, what can we do to help the community that we service, you know? So, while the church, we would love to see old members come back and everything. Ultimately our goal is to have the focus be on what can we do to help the community.
Ric Shields (01:41):
You and Derrick were faithful, active members of the church one day, and in a short time, you were elected to serve in the pastoral leadership role, and that was a monumental shift. Had you prepared in advance in any way, and were there some challenges that you faced with stepping into that new role?
Roz Williams (02:02):
Had we prepared? No. <laugh> Were there challenges? Absolutely, because it's one thing to go to church and serve and assist, but there's another thing to be leadership in the body. Hmm. To me, your level of responsibility and accountability grows exponentially. And in turn also, we are human beings. Our levels of stress, faith, faithfulness, were all tested. And especially in the early stages, we, we got a little bit better about it. Now, of course, kind of like riding a bike, all of those, you know, we were really tested. We were, we were a lot younger. Thank God.
(02:45):
Really, it was a great test. And, you know, understanding what our roles are in that. Because like in our church, while we're called together in the pastorship capacity, Derrick is the senior pastor. So, the body may not see me in that capacity as much as they see him. So, I have to learn to fulfill my role within the body, really more as a behind the scenes kind of person than an out and upfront kind of person.
Ric Shields (03:21):
I've had a chance to occasionally view some Facebook videos of your services and to see Derrick's growth from those first sermons he was preaching. To where he's at now. He's becoming more of an expository preacher, really breaking open the word and looking at it verse by verse. Different kind of a style, same guy, but he's growing. And I, I can't imagine how hard it would be when you're not prepared to preach once or twice a week and you're working full-time besides, and you've got a family other responsibilities, and suddenly this is thrust upon you and, and you know that the Lord is behind it, and you're saying, God, do you really love me, <laugh>? Yes. Why? Why are you doing this to me? Right.
Roz Williams (04:12):
And at that time, two of our three children were still at home. Well, actually, technically you could say three, the oldest was in college, was starting college. So, we still,
Ric Shields (04:21):
I would say she was at home. Yeah.
Roz Williams (04:23):
So, she was still at home. So, it was a challenge, but we knew to trust God, or I kind of really more or less threw my hands up and said, okay, God, you did this <laugh>. Yeah. You know, So, help us get through it.
Ric Shields (04:37):
I'm certain that there were times when you're saying, God, you're going to have to pay for this <laugh>, you ordered this. Absolutely. It, this is not what I had on, on my menu at all. And you, you brought this about. So, God, how are you going to pay for this?
Roz Williams (04:51):
Yeah. Listen, he, he makes a way every time. Yeah, he does. Every time.
Ric Shields (04:57):
Roz, nine years. Did you ever really look down the road and say, sure, we can do this for nine years?
Roz Williams (05:04):
Nope. I never said we could do it at all. <Laugh>. It was not what I envisioned, that's for sure. Now with that said, my grandfather was a pastor. My stepfather was a pastor. My uncles are pastors, and actually on Derrick's side, he had uncles that were ministers too. We, we always saw ourselves as being active members within whatever body we chose to be in, but not in their pastorship capacity. And just, you know, due to the way things turned out, we ended up there we accepted, and God has been working through us there ever since.
Ric Shields (05:45):
It's been a real growth track too. I'm certain it...
Roz Williams (05:48):
It is still a growth track, you know, but, you know, we're trusting in believing God for the season that we are in. As you and I were saying before podcasts began. God doesn't need numbers to count. He makes, you know, whatever. He has count.
Ric Shields (06:04):
We're recording this episode during Black History Month. Does your church have any special activities or observances this month? And actually, I guess what I'm asking is whether African American churches observe Black History Month or if that's something that's more dedicated to schools or to community organizations?
Roz Williams (06:23):
Well, absolutely, because there's nothing like paying homage to where you came from. I would say that as a whole, we don't just jump out and say Black history because Black history in my opinion is American history. It's just history that's not in the traditional history books that you and I are accustomed to seeing or what we were raised reading when we were growing up. So, it's just kind of bringing to the spotlight things that African Americans did that most people probably don't know about or aren't aware of.
Ric Shields (06:55):
So, really, you're celebrating that every week. It's not something that just comes up once a year for a month.
Roz Williams (07:02):
Every day. I will say that there may be some emphasis more So, this month on the African aspect, because the roots are from Africa. So, you may see some Sundays or Wednesdays where traditional African apparel will be worn. Something that we don't traditionally we're here in America all the time, and that's just to show our respect for the culture. And just to kind of remember them.
Ric Shields (07:29):
Roz, I did one of those tests that told me my genetic background. Come to find out I couldn't be more white if I tried.
Roz Williams (07:37):
<Laugh>. oh. <Laugh>.
Ric Shields (07:38):
My ancestors are from Ireland and England. I understand they probably immigrated to the USA and they're early to the mid 18 hundreds. So, that being said, I can't be an authoritative voice on the challenges and opportunities faced by African American churches. And that's why we're talking, I hope you can help me with your personal experience.
(07:58):
I'm not by the way, suggesting that our churches are best organized by color, but reality shows that's predominantly the case, especially in some of our smaller neighborhoods or communities. So, one of my assumptions is that African American churches have similar struggles as churches of any other color, Hispanic, Burmese, white. Am I correct in that assumption or am I maybe missing something?
Roz Williams (08:24):
We probably do have a little bit more of a challenge in that I venture to say the majority of African American pastors throughout the country are bi-vocational, meaning that they have a nine to five job as well as a pastorship. And I, I know that in a lot of other churches, once you become pastor, you are the pastor. That is your job. You are the CEO of your congregation, and you get to focus all of your time, all of your talent, all of your resources on feeding your flock. Whereas in a lot of African American churches, we don't necessarily have that, I would say advantage.
(09:11):
So, oftentimes volunteerism is more the mainstay in our bodies than it would be maybe in a Caucasian church. Also, a lot of African American churches don't necessarily operate under a conference or convention or, you know, organization like we may be Baptist, but we are not necessarily affiliated with the National Baptist Convention or Southern Baptist Convention like that because a lot of those places offer funding and resources back into communities and churches that are affiliated with them.
(09:54):
But even with that said, it's not nearly enough to address the challenges and the day-to-Day things that come up and the African American church and what comes up in the African American church comes up in every church. We have sick people, we have poor people, you know, we have children that need additional resources. We have older people that need additional resources, and you know, we just, a lot of times we just don't have what we need in order to move the body forward.
Ric Shields (10:25):
Let me take a moment, Roz, to reminder listeners that we appreciate their feedback. Let me know if we're providing the kind of content that's helpful to you by dropping me an email at info@DoorWays dot cc. And if you have an idea for a guest or for a topic, let me know and we'll work in incorporating that topic or that guest into our podcast schedule.
(10:47):
You're listening to the DoorWays® Ministry Network podcast. My name is Ric Shields and I'm joined on this episode with Roz Williams, who with her husband Derrick Williams, have served in the lead pastor role at Greater Cornerstone Baptist Church in West Tulsa for the past nine years.
(11:02):
You said something that I obviously didn't stop to realize before, that in many African American churches, pastors are bi-vocational. And let me say the good thing about that is that these pastors then are in the community shoulder to shoulder with people every day that they might not just have part of their church So, their ministry is taking place outside the walls in a way that might not be with a pastor that is quote, full-time in ministry.
Roz Williams (11:35):
Absolutely. I would say that's a great advantage. But I would also say that being on the pastorship side of it is also very exhausting.
Ric Shields (11:45):
It is. I can understand.
Roz Williams (11:46):
That is because once you're ministering to the people doing a nine to five, and you have a family to support, not only are you exhausted, but who is ministering to you?
Ric Shields (11:59):
And that family support is not just financial either. Oh, no, you've got children. And those children have to be loved and cared for and celebrated, and you want to spend time with them. And the church always has needs that they're pulling the pastor into, "Hey, mama is sick," or "Daddy has a problem" and "my child, something's going wrong here. I need you to come talk to my kids." So, that's always pulling on you.
Roz Williams (12:28):
It's a very delicate balance. And oftentimes, how, how do you do it?
Ric Shields (12:32):
Yeah. How do you do it?
Roz Williams (12:33):
Lot, lots of prayer and supplication, <laugh>, <laugh>.
Ric Shields (12:37):
Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah.
Roz Williams (12:40):
We, you know, our congregation currently is probably more manageable than it has been in the past. We do have other members that we try to delegate some of the responsibility to, but the reality is there are things that have to be handled by the pastor or by me.
(13:00):
Now, the blessing for us is our children, are adult children. That doesn't mean that they deserve less love and support or attention, but it's a little bit easier for us to navigate because we are empty nesters. But, you know, for the African American pastor who's raising a family, you know, it, it can be difficult.
Ric Shields (13:20):
In many rural churches, pastors are struggling to stay in the ministry because they don't have the funding in some of those smaller churches to be full-time. And part of the problem, perhaps, especially in Caucasian churches, is what you may have alluded to already. We often want to see ministry as full-time, and I'm in here and I'm going to get paid, and this is all I'm going to do. And maybe we wouldn't have as many small churches closing if we had pastors who realized God was also, calling them to be a part of the community and to be bi-vocational as best they can.
Roz Williams (14:06):
Absolutely. I think by nature we're creatures of habit. So, we're following the game plan that was followed by our fathers and mothers and their fathers and mothers.
Ric Shields (14:18):
And I also have, it's been my experience as I've interacted with friends in, in African American churches, that they lean heavily on deacons in their churches as well. That deacons are considered to be ministers who are valued, that you can call on the deacons to do things that sometimes you might not call on a deacon in the churches I've been familiar with the same way you would an African American church. Do you think that's possible?
Roz Williams (14:49):
Yes. And oftentimes I, it's likely because people want what they want. And I think that's true in the church, out of the church, in the workforce. I think that when people determine that whatever is going on with them in their lives warrants immediate attention or attention in a way that they feel that they will get the best result, then they'll go around him and call the pastor directly, whether we've asked them to speak to the deacon or, or someone else in position. So, that's, and as a pastor, do we say, "No?" No.
Ric Shields (15:27):
It's, it's a difficult balance.
Roz Williams (15:30):
It is indeed.
Ric Shields (15:30):
You, you want to lean on those leaders, and at the same time, others want to be in touch with the pastor. They feel like that's where they're really getting the attention that they need.
(15:43):
My wife and I have attended Carbondale Assembly of God in West Tulsa for over 30 years. Our church and Greater Cornerstone have had a connection going back probably 25 years or more. We used to enjoy some community meetings called "Thunder on the West Side" that was sponsored by churches in our part of the city. You had, I say you had because you arranged them, I think. We had some fabulous speakers and some incredible music. Roz, you directed a choir like no one I've ever heard before. You did a great job.
Roz Williams (16:23):
Thank you so much.
Ric Shields (16:23):
We were good at getting together, but also seemed pretty good at going our separate ways when the meetings were over. What do you think it is that makes us seek those separate identities?
Roz Williams (16:34):
We go to what we know. It, it's, to me, it's, it's really as simple as that. We were able to come together in a sense because music is something that connects people. It's universal. We all listen to, I don't know what whoever's out there, it's something that we probably share. We all like BeBe and CeCe Winans. So, that, that's something that brings us, that's a commonality that we have. So, that's really kind of what brings the music together.
(17:08):
But then the question becomes, well, what brings the rest of the congregation together? And, you know, I think that the premise for what we do, what we did was, you know, music was the doorway or the gateway to open up to greater things. Now, since those events happened, and I still see several members of Carbondale, you know, out on the street and the stores and everything, and we remember when, you know, we did those things, it did create some connection. And that was even for some that weren't even in the choir at that time.
(17:42):
But, you know, we just don't, we just probably need to find the things that make us the same or similar instead of, you know, the things that, that divide us.
Ric Shields (17:55):
And you're answering my next question. I was going to ask, "are there steps that we can take that help us to better integrate our churches?" I'm reminded that heaven is going to be filled with people from every race, tribe, and tongue. And it just seems that maybe getting a little practice ahead of time by interacting with brothers and sisters on a more regular basis. That seems like that'd be a good idea, doesn't it? Yeah.
Roz Williams (18:19):
Well, you know, God tells us, despise not the assembly of the Saints. That is something that we need to turn back to "Thunder on the West Side" or something similar to that would need to come back. But, you know, finding a way for us to worship together in Christian fellowship and love, I think that that's really what's important and what's crucial, because the more that we worship together, the more that we'll see that we aren't So, different after all. Now, some people like to worship different, but the key there is respecting those differences, but still understanding that under Jesus Christ, we are all one body.
Ric Shields (18:57):
What would you say currently is your biggest ministry challenge at Greater Cornerstone?
Roz Williams (19:03):
In our community, there are, there's an apartment complex over there, and they have a lot of people that transition in and out of those apartments. I believe the maximum amount of time that people can live in those apartments, it's about 18 months. So, we do try to minister to people in, in those apartments, but we don't have the resources really to address the issues that those folks have that live there. Some come to our church, some don't.
(19:40):
There is a center out there, Dream Center West is there to help, but we wish we could be more of a help in conjunction with them to address the various needs because those that live there, housing isn't just the issue. It's not just housing, it's employment, it's mental stability, it's finding a job. It's knowing that in 18 months you're going to have to transition out of there and what resources are available to them to transition to maybe more permanent housing. And right now, we're just not set up in the community. Even the community center is not quite set up to completely address all of the needs of the people that are in that area.
Ric Shields (20:27):
And infrastructure in terms of transportation especially, if I'm correct, is still a big issue there because it's one thing to have a job, but you also have to be able to get to the job.
Roz Williams (20:39):
Absolutely.
Ric Shields (20:40):
And if transportation's not available, it becomes a tremendous challenge.
Roz Williams (20:46):
It is almost a double-edged sword. You know, you're giving a place to stay, but not a means to get anywhere beyond that place to stay.
Ric Shields (20:56):
Multifaceted problem and requires multifaceted answers. We know that, that the underlying answer is somehow a relationship with Jesus and being able to turn our lives over to him and allow him to work in us and through us. We know that, we believe that, but we also know that there are things that he calls us to do, ways that we can help, and ways that we can minister together. Well, I'm going to be praying for you in the days ahead.
Roz Williams (21:22):
Please do. We could use it, you know, we would just, we would love nothing more than, than prayers and extra hands and everything that we can, extra ideas, anything that we can think of to, you know, make a difference in the community that we serve in.
Ric Shields (21:37):
Roz, would you please pray for us, pray for our brothers and sisters, especially as we learn how to love one another better in a way that really honors and glorifies the Lord. Would you pray for us in that regard?
Roz Williams (21:51):
Oh, absolutely.
(21:52):
Father God, we come to you right now just saying thank you. Thank you because of who you are. We just want to say thank you for this new day. Thank you for our lives. Thank you for the use of our limbs. Father, we ask that you speak to us and speak through us regarding your plans for our community, our churches, our homes, our lives, and this nation. We know, father, that through you all things are possible and we just ask that you shine a light on us and give us the word, give us a sign, lead us and guide us in your way So, that we may let man know that you are God and that you are in control. Speak to us and speak through us. Thank you, Jesus for everything. Amen.
Ric Shields (22:43):
Thanks again for listening. I hope you found this podcast to be helpful. Please feel free to share it with others you think may benefit from it.
(22:51):
Would you like someone to pray for you? I'll pray for you. And if you'd like, I'll share your note with others who will pray and believe for God to work on your behalf. Drop me a note at info@DoorWays dot cc.
(23:04):
Until next time, may you sense God's presence, the love of Jesus, and the grace of the Holy Spirit in your heart, your home, and in your spheres of relationship in the days ahead. God bless you.