Drastic Changes

Jeff Walker believes the current generation of youth and young adults are world changers and is excited about the future of youth ministry.

That’s not to say there are fewer challenges today than when he began nearly 28 years ago. While many things have changed, some remain constant. Kids still need love, consistency, and genuine care.

Join us as we discuss youth ministry; now, and in the days to come.

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Drastic Changes
Guest: Jeff Walker
Season 3, Episode 14

Announcer (00:00):

Welcome to the DoorWays® Ministry Network podcast.

Ric Shields (00:11):

Thanks for joining us on this podcast. I'm Ric Shields. I'm your host and the director of the DoorWays® Ministry Network.

(00:18):

I'm speaking today with my friend Jeff Walker, the youth and college pastor at Carbondale Assembly of God in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Jeff, his wife, Maresha, and their two sons have served there since 2005. Their sons, Ty and Trey are adults now. They were just little when they first came to Carbondale, but now Jeff and Maresha are about to become in-laws in just a few weeks when Trey marries Morgan Jones, his beautiful fiancé. By the way, are you planning to perform the nuptials?

Jeff Walker (00:50):

Oh, thank you so much. We're really excited. Yes, I am going to perform the nuptials. I don't know if I'll do it without crying. I'm going to do my best. That's, that's the plan.

Ric Shields (01:00):

Good for you.

(01:01):

Hey, Jeff, prior to serving on the staff at Carbondale in west Tulsa, you served in a couple of other churches in Arkansas and Oklahoma. I recall you telling me that you've been in youth ministry for 28 years. Did you plan it that way from the beginning?

Jeff Walker (01:19):

Yes and no. I, I knew from the beginning that God was calling us to youth ministry. Maresha and I, neither one of us had any idea that this would nearly lead to 30 years of youth ministry which is a really long time. I, however, from the beginning, knew that this was not just a stepping stone to get me to the next level either. This was a call that God had placed upon our life, and he had charged us with this call.

(01:42):

We love what we do. We've done it, like we said going on 28 years right now, and look forward to do maybe a couple more years to hit 30. How wonderful would that be? And so, yeah, we're looking forward to this. Again, it wasn't something that we anticipated doing for 28 years, but when God placed a call upon my life, I told him in the beginning that I would do it until he released it. And that call's never been quite released yet.

Ric Shields (02:08):

You know what's interesting, because I've seen you work so hard, Jeff. You're always on the go. You're always at somebody's school, somebody's performance, somebody's game. It's constant. I think really, we could almost look at this in dog years. Thirty years in human life, may maybe it's more like 200 years in dog years because Buddy, you have busted it constantly. I know that.

Jeff Walker (02:34):

I appreciate that.

Ric Shields (02:36):

Well, I know youth ministry is a calling, and you've already talked about that. It must be for someone like you almost to be in it for almost 30 years. So, who or what impacted your life in such a way as a teenager or as a young adult that caused you to commit your life to student ministry?

Jeff Walker (02:56):

Pastor Ric, I grew up in a small town, Maresha an Buren, Arkansas. And I went to a rather large church, but I lived in a small town. Pastor Bobby Johnson was my pastor. His son, Toryn Johnson was my youth pastor. And I had what I called my church parents were Tammy and Gary Grisham, they were their music pastors. And these people invested in my life. They poured into me.

(03:19):

I was, if you will, an outsider. I was a student from the community that came in. I didn't have any family in the church. I just showed up because a guy named Jamie Shelley invited me to go to Power Source on Tuesdays. So, I started going to church on Tuesday nights, fell in love with the church, fell in love with the people. Somehow, they fell in love with me and they just kind of took me in and they just began to invest in me and began to speak into my life.

(03:45):

 And then we had some new sponsors. Mark Kelly, who actually is a pastor in northwest Arkansas right now. And then Rick Mays, who pastors in, in Arkansas as well. But these guys invested in me and poured into me and shaped my life. I went through so much.

(04:00):

I had great parents. My parents were wonderful parents, but my home was somewhat dysfunctional. My dad was an alcoholic. Some things happened in my life, but through all of that, this church loved me and invested in me. They showed up in my games. My youth pastor showed up at my lunches, just really poured into my life. And I realized what it meant to have someone who cared about you regardless of the mistakes that you make in life. And they loved me like Jesus did. And then I remember, I grew up again.

(04:31):

I had great parents. My, my dad would, and my mom would take me to the Boys and Girls Club and drop me off. I spent a lot of time there. There was a guy there by the name of Michael Norwood, Sr. He was just an African American guy that poured into my life that fueled me to live for Jesus. He was a guy who loved God with all of his heart. He had a son named Michael Norwood, who was one of my good friends. It's kind of crazy because Trey Norwood plays for, he played for the University of Oklahoma. His grandson just this last year played for Pittsburgh Steelers. And so, it's kind of neat to look back at that.

(05:04):

But those are guys and those are ladies that impacted my life. There was another lady called Diana Prestich. We called her Mama D. She showed up at everything. She baked us cookies and brought us pies. And she loved us, and we spent lots of time at their house. But just people in the church who invested in me; caused me not only to love Jesus but wanted to love people like Jesus. And I knew that God had a call in my life. And so, I've just kind of loved people and done ministry like I was taught as a teenager.

Ric Shields (05:32):

Jeff, I've known you for a long time, but these are stories I've never known. I've never asked this before. And so, for you to tell me that these people showed up for lunches, showed up on my games, they showed up for you, helps me to understand the modeling that took place from them. How it has impacted your life and made it so that you model that same thing for other kids. That's pretty cool.

(05:59):

Also, I want to go back and say how interesting it is that you just started showing up. Your parents didn't bring you, your parents didn't go to church. You didn't have family in that church.

Jeff Walker (06:10):

No, not at all.

Ric Shields (06:11):

You just started showing up. And somehow through all of that, though you didn't get affirmation or support at home for that. And I'm not saying that they were saying, no, you can't go, but you didn't get that at home. And yet, wow, what you found at that church and these people pouring into you and loving you. How cool that is.

(06:33):

Jeff, so you've been doing youth ministry now 28 years. Do you think youth ministry is harder today than it was when you first started?

Jeff Walker (06:42):

It definitely is harder today. When, you know, when we first started, I literally would walk the neighborhoods and I would find students playing basketball to parks in different places. And, and I would just challenge them to a game of 21. because I was a pretty good basketball player. Not so much now, but you know, 20 years ago I was a lot lighter. And so, I

Ric Shields (07:02):

<Crosstalk> Yeah, we gain a little weight as we age and, and you've got some, a bad knee and whatever. Yeah, I don't, I don't see you playing a lot of basketball.

Jeff Walker (07:09):

But I would challenge students to play me in 21. And I'd say, Hey, if I beat you in 21 or horse, you got to come to church tonight. And so literally, there's one kid named Baby James that I played and tricked him into coming to church. And he fell in love with Jesus, became a leader, now he's preaching the gospel. But it was easier back then because there wasn't as much to offer as there is today. So back then, we didn't have to compete with the Wednesday night practices or Wednesday night games. And Wednesday was a little more sacred, if you will. But today there's nothing sacred about any day. It's just people just, they just plan things when they can plan them. And, and lots of times it happens on days than which we already, you know, scheduled Wednesday night youth services.

Ric Shields (07:51):

Even on Sundays, I mean, really now on Sundays, soccer tournaments and soccer games and practices and whatever. And if you don't show up, you're probably not going to be on the team.

Jeff Walker (08:01):

That's true, that's true. And you're paying good money. These are, you know, these are competitive sports that they're playing in, you know, and so they're paying good money to, to play on these teams. And so, you not only want to show up, you have to show up because you're invested.

(08:17):

And again, that's nothing against the parents. My boys were there, too. My boys did that. I remember Trey and Ty both growing up, we would tell them, listen, if you play before 10 o'clock on Sunday, you're not playing because you're going to go to First Service and then after first service, then you can play all day long, but you're going to church first. And I see a lot of our parents that still do that. But, but you know, it's with students who don't have parents in the local church. It is kind of difficult for them to understand the fact that, Hey, I need to put Jesus first.

Ric Shields (08:48):

And it's also one of the reasons I think why there are many churches now who hold a Saturday night service. Not because their services are so full on Sunday, but because there are so many activities that take place. We want to still give them an opportunity to worship and to have a Sabbath. So yeah, I, I know that's, that's really true.

(09:08):

You're listening to the DoorWays® Ministry Network podcast. My name is Ric Shields and I'm joined on this episode with Jeff Walker, the youth and college pastor Carbondale Assembly of God in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I think it's especially interesting to note that Jeff has served in this position at Carbondale for almost 19 years; since 2005 when his family moved to Tulsa from Dewey, Oklahoma, just north of Bartlesville.

(09:34):

How has youth ministry changed over the last three decades?

Jeff Walker (09:38):

You know, youth ministry has changed drastically over the past several years. To be honest, it's just in just the last three years, it's changed just due to the pandemic and it’s probably actually more beneficial for me to talk about what hasn't changed.

(09:52):

You know, growing up, Papa Johnson who was Pastor Johnson's dad, who was on staff as our elders pastor, I spent a lot of time in his office. He once told me, he's like, Jeff you could be the greatest preacher in the world, and your church could be empty and you could be the worst preacher in the world, but if you love people, your church will be full.

(10:11):

I think about how the youth ministry has changed over the last three years, but I think about the three things that haven't changed. And, and that's what still drives students to come.

(10:21):

 And one is that students are looking to be loved. Students are looking for somebody to love them. They're looking for someone to love them in the middle of their mess, in the middle of their circumstances. They're looking for someone just to love them and not judge them. They're looking for people to come alongside of them and pretty much love them like Jesus loves them.

(10:39):

And so, yeah, over the past three decades, it has changed. But the one thing that hasn't changed is that students are always and forever will be, looking for someone to love them. And so, I kind of took what Papa Johnson said to me, and, and I've just kind of applied that to my life. I don't know if I'm a very good preacher or not, but I know how to love people.

(10:59):

Then, students are looking for consistency now. They're looking for someone to be constant in their life. Because lots of the students today have people that are constantly walking in and out of their life. No one's just, there's not a constant in their life.

(11:12):

I just learned that for me and for our ministry, the most important thing is that we're constant. That we're consistently there. If we say we're going to show up, we show up. If, if we say that, Hey, we're going to come to your game, or we're going to show up for lunch, we're there because they're, they're waiting on you to let them down. They're waiting on you to just mess up because they're used to that. And so, when you constantly show up, so, you know, we've been here almost 18 years and we have a great relationship with a lot of the schools in the area, almost every school in the area.

(11:42):

But the reason is because we've been constant. We've been on campuses every week. You know, we go to multiple campuses every week and we're constant even when things weren’t, we were constant. Our teachers see that. Our principals see that. Admins see that, and our students see that. And so that's one of the things that hasn't changed in youth ministry.

(12:02):

And the other thing is that students are looking for people to be genuine. They just want you to be real with them. We have this misconception that teenagers want us to have all the answers. And the truth is, Pastor Ric, they don't want us to have all the answers, they just want us to listen. And so, there are lots of times when I sit down with teenagers and they ask me questions, and I just listen to them.

(12:23):

And then at the end, I'll just say, I don't have the answer, and I'm sorry, but I'll help you find it. They're looking for people just to be genuine and to be honest. And, and believe it or not, man, they, they have this superpower. They can see through you really quickly if you're not genuine and they run from you. And so that's one of the things that we strive to be as genuine in the middle of this thing called ministry. Because if we do that, we love them, if we're consistent in their life and then we're genuine, you'll grab a hold of them and then through that process, Jesus can grab them.

Ric Shields (12:56):

So, let me ask, what seems to be the easiest thing about youth ministry today?

Jeff Walker (13:01):

I know this sounds like I'm taking the easy road, but honestly, that quote that says, choose a job that you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life. To be honest, I found that. This is my job. This is my calling. And I literally love my job. I love to see it when students actually get it, when the light goes off, when that relationship with Jesus becomes intimate and takes off and you see them begin to walk with Christ, it's so cool and so rewarding.

(13:29):

There's nothing hard about my job, I guess, at the heart. I know the next question you're going to ask is probably what's the hardest thing about

Ric Shields (13:35):

Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.

Jeff Walker (13:37):

Probably parents, to be honest with you, <laugh>.

Ric Shields (13:39):

So that really hasn't changed in the last 30 years.

Jeff Walker (13:44):

No, it's the same. It's the same.

(13:45):

And a couple other things that are difficult about youth ministry. Just the long hours. You know, I'm not as young as I used to be. <Laugh> I am getting older. That's a little hard because we do so much. We go to basketball games and dance recitals and volleyball games and baseball and football, and we show up at practices and hand-out Gatorade and do lots of things. And so yeah, long hours are, are kind of difficult for me; 12, 13, 14 hour days sometimes.

(14:12):

 And then one of the, probably the hardest things for me as a youth pastor is to see our students go through things that they shouldn't have to go through at such an early age. A loss of a loved one, a loss of a sibling, or just, you know, a broken home. Just so much stuff. And so, for me, my heart goes out because those are things that I don't have answers to, and I can't help, and I can't solve them. All I can do is just, just be there for them to lean on and to speak into their lives.

Ric Shields (14:43):

Jeff, how has your philosophy of youth ministry changed, do you think, in, in the past 28 years? Has it changed? Maybe it hasn't, but I wouldn't be surprised if it has.

Jeff Walker (14:53):

Yeah. You know, I'm, I'm going to go back to again, my mentor, Papa Johnson. He told me he is like, Jeff people don't care how much you know until they first know how much you care.

Ric Shields (15:02):

That's a great quote, by the way. I mean, and he's, it's not original to him. I've heard it from other places. But still, the reality is, you know, when you stop and think about it, man, go get up and put all the diplomas on the wall if you want to. But they're not going to matter if you are detached and you're not an emotive or a caring person.

Jeff Walker (15:24):

That's right. And, and so that's been my motto. And that's something I still stand on today. It never let me down. It was true with Jesus, and it's still true with us. People don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care.

(15:37):

I like to call it like, I have some change in my pocket. After a student's been coming for a while and maybe there's some issues that student's going through. Maybe there's some things that need to be addressed with that student. You can only address those issues if you spend quality time with that student. If you have change, just spend it on them. And so, and that only happens by getting to know them, getting in the trenches and loving on them and investing in them and pouring into them.

(16:02):

And so, yeah, lots of change. But my motto, my philosophy has always been, I'm going to let them know that I care about them and then whenever they need me, I'm going to be there for them because they're going to ask me to help.

Ric Shields (16:14):

Yeah. Hey, Jeff, where do you see youth ministry headed in the next, oh, say the next 10 years?

Jeff Walker (16:19):

You know, that's a great question. I truly believe that this generation that we have now are world changers and I can see big things for the future of our youth.

(16:28):

I was asked a question the other day, when was your youth group Carbondale at the healthiest? That was a tough question. I sat back and I had to think about that. And I would probably say between 2010 and 2017 we had a span where we saw multiple students come out of that era who are either going on to full-time ministry like Christian Chambliss, Ben Atkinson, Jordan Dunn, Shelby Hood. And we saw God do so many great things. Matt Brunner. It just, the list goes on. And I just think about all those students who've gone into full-time ministry.

(17:02):

And then I think about the many students who have come alongside of the local church and are volunteering and investing and pouring into the church like Dyce Applegate and Sarah Applegate and Meredith Lockhart and Justin Dunn and those guys.

(17:18):

I see God doing incredible things through these students, and that was a really powerful time. But the good news is, I think that CAGY is two years away from being just as healthy as they were in those years with all of those students. And so, it's really exciting.

(17:34):

 We have so many seventh and eighth grade leaders that are coming up, and we have some incredible 10th and 11th grade leaders and it's just, and we have some fifth graders that are coming up. Carbondale's in a good spot to see some incredible things happen in the next 10 years. I just can't wait to sit back and watch because it's not, it really doesn't have anything to do with me. It has everything to do with the parents and the grandparents and of course, Jesus moving and challenging concerning their hearts to follow him. And we're seeing a really cool crop come up in the next few years.

Ric Shields (18:05):

We may have listeners, Jeff, who are considering a call to youth ministry. There certainly are parents whose kids are in youth group. Would you please take a minute to pray with those folks, that the Lord will give them insight and vision for how to best reach our youth and college aged kids with the love, the joy, and the grace of Jesus. Would you do that?

Jeff Walker (18:26):

Yeah. Father, we thank you for your love and your mercy. We thank you, Lord, that in the middle of this thing called life, that God, you have placed our parents in a spot in which they are to raise their students. And Lord I know that these parents are praying and believing and hoping that their sons or their daughters will do great things for the kingdom. And Lord, I know that you tell us that you have great things ahead of us. I realize that in Ephesians 2:10 and Jeremiah 29:11, I realize that God, you have great things in store for all of these students who are in our ministry and in the students to come up who aren't quite there yet.

(19:03):

And Lord, I pray for these parents that God, you give them godly insight. That God, you give them wisdom and direction. That God, you give them the ability to not only be that parent, to be the one that will guide them and direct them in the path in which they should go. To help them Lord, to walk beside them in the stillness of the day, Lord, when difficult times come, when trials show up. When parents are looking for answers, I pray God that you'll give them wisdom and help them speak into their children's lives, Lord, their students' lives, so that they can see great things happen.

(19:35):

I pray for this harvest that's about to come up, that's coming up right now, as we pray today, that God, you just anoint these students from the top of their head to the souls of their feet. That God, you use them to do great things for the kingdom and that God, you open up windows and avenues and doors for them to step through so God, they can be world changed so that they can literally change the world.

(19:56):

And Lord, I thank you for all you've done and all you're doing at Carbondale and just your church around the world. And so, Lord, I pray that you will just guide us and direct us in every area of our life. In Jesus name. Amen.

Ric Shields (20:09):

I hope you found this podcast to be helpful. If there's someone you think may also enjoy your benefit from this episode, please consider passing the link along to share with them.

(20:19):

If you'd like someone to pray for you, drop me a note at info@DoorWays dot cc. I'll pray for you. And if you'd like, I will share your note with others who will pray and believe for God to work on your behalf.

(20:30):

Until next time, may the Lord bless you as you'll follow after him. Thanks for listening.