DIVINE INTERVENTIONS: The Certainly Unknown

Brian & Shawna White have learned more than they knew was needed about trusting God. Brian’s brain tumor has reshaped their lives in ways they never imagined, but removing the tumor was not the only change necessary in the healing process.

Transcript

DIVINE INTERVENTIONS: The Certainly Unknown
GUESTS: Brian & Shawna White
Season 3, Episode 35

Ric Shields (00:00):

In January, 2016, Brian White lost hearing in his left ear. Then he started having problems of balance, and after trips to a couple of different specialists, he and his wife Shawna received a diagnosis they never imagined. Brian had a brain tumor that was growing and pushing against his brainstem, and surgery was the only viable option.

(00:23):

This is the DoorWays® Ministry Network podcast. Thanks for joining me. As we talk about “Divine Interventions, God Walks with Us.”

(00:39):

Thank you for joining us on this podcast. I'm Ric Shields, your host and the director of the DoorWays® Ministry Network. Today I'm talking with my friends Brian and Shawna White, who serve as the discipleship pastors at Carbondale Assembly of God in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I first met you guys back in 2008 when you moved from Evangel University, where you served as residence directors there. Prior to that, you lived in Overland Park, Kansas and served in a church as the directors of student ministries.

(01:06):

You've lived in Tulsa now for 16 years. Your daughter just graduated from high school a few weeks ago. Your son was born here. He's now playing baseball and middle school and becoming a pretty good musician. Shawna, you got your teaching certificate and teach sixth grade science. I think Tulsa's been pretty good to you.

Brian White (01:26):

Yeah, we love it here. I have some good memories and the church has been really good to us. And I remember some fun times, Ric, when you were working at the church with me and some late-night phone calls to discuss who was going to go to the hospital. So, we've had a lot of fun over the years.

Ric Shields (01:41):

Oh, man, those were the fun phone calls, too, weren't they? Well, you know, and we've had a lot of fun, but it hasn't all been sunshine and roses. Brian, you have a pretty remarkable story. It isn't a secret, but neither has it been really widely shared until recently. Your life had a pretty significant turn of events eight years ago. Tell us what happened

Brian White (02:03):

In January of whatever that was. 2016, I realized that I couldn't hear anything out of my left ear. I thought my earbuds had just gone bad, but it turned out that all the earbuds were bad. I I thought it was allergies. I went to my primary care doc and he said, yeah, take a steroid. That didn't work. So I went to an ear, nose and throat doctor, and he did some hearing tests and right away he said, well, we're going to, we need to look at this. So he scheduled me for an MRI, couple days later, he called me back and said, “Yeah, they found something and I've scheduled you with a neurosurgeon. You need to keep this appointment.”

Ric Shields (02:36):

Wait, wait. He said, “I found something.” And that's what he said.

Brian White (02:40):

Well, he said, he said he is looking at the MRI results. And they found something. He scheduled me with a neurosurgeon. I went and found the report and read a little bit, but I'm not a doctor, so I, I didn't know what it meant.

Ric Shields (02:53):

Have you ever stayed at a Holiday Inn Express?

Brian White (02:55):

No. Yeah, I just knew it was pretty scary. But even then, we, I'm pretty naive. I've always been really healthy, so I thought, “Well, we'll, we'll just go figure out.” And it was that first meeting with a neurosurgeon that was kind of drinking from the fire hose, and he started talking about what this could be. They thought it was an acoustic neuroma, which is a benign growth on the, on the auditory nerve. Mine ended up being something. They said it's 95% sure it's an acoustic neuroma. It could be this other thing. Mine ended up being the other thing, but it was still, it was a benign tumor, but it was pressing on that nerve and causing me a lot of problems. It was in talking without surgeon that we realized, this is really serious. We're going to, we're talking brain surgery and it's, they started listing…

Ric Shields (03:37):

Yeah. I mean, yeah, we're talking to a neurosurgeon. We're not talking to, you know, somebody who's going to take a wart off your toe or something.

Brian White (03:45):

Yeah. We started to realize the complications, possible complications, and so we ended up with, I ended up with a, a tumor about the size of a golf ball right on the side of my brain. It was pressing up against my brainstem. They were clear that it had, it was benign. And I thought, that means, well, it's fine. It's going to be okay. And it turns out that the benign just means it's going to cause you trouble real slow. So, the doctors thought that it had probably been growing for about eight to 10 years, and it just reached the point where it was causing problems. So, I lost hearing, I was having trouble with balance, and it was pretty clear that we needed to do surgery to remove it.

Ric Shields (04:20):

So let me ask, you played, you played football in high school and college. Can this be related to a brain injury from playing football?

Brian White (04:28):

Probably not, but I, again, I'm not a doctor, but I did get a nice pamphlet, understanding brain tumors when I went to the hospital. They don't really know what causes these. They're not incredibly, they're not incredibly common, but they're not super rare either. And so, once you have one, then you start, it's like driving a yellow car. Once you buy a yellow car, you see them all over the place. Once you have, once you have a, an acoustic neuroma or a meningioma is what mine was, then you see them all over the place. I see, I know the scar. I know what to look for. Pretty common. They think it's probably genetic. It's just kind of a, yeah, they don't really know. Some people get them and some people don't.

Ric Shields (05:03):

But listen, a brain tumor still, this is no small deal. And your tumor was the size of a golf ball inside your brain. Any reason to believe it might be malignant?

Brian White (05:14):

You know, they were pretty clear early on that this was benign. But they were also pretty clear that we had to do something about it. And so, when we talked to the neurosurgeon, they said they were kind of pretreatment plans. They said, one is you can leave it alone. If, they said, if I was in my eighties or nineties, they would just leave it alone. The other was to do radiation right away. But the first thing that happens when you radiate a tumor is it swells up. And my brain was already out of space. So, surgery became the only real viable option for us. But it never, they were really careful to be clear to us that this was not cancerous. This was not something where we thought we would be looking at chemotherapy or it, it was not going to metastasize to, to other places. So that was a, that was a huge blessing to know that we kind of had some breathing space.

Ric Shields (05:58):

But it's still stuck in your brain and it's apparently growing and it's causing you to lose your hearing. And you had some balance issues as well. Shawna, I think this is scary. What was going on in your head? What's going on in your heart?

Shawna White (06:11):

I think scary is probably a fantastic word. It was certainly unknown. And at first it, we, I mean, we went in the span of just a few weeks. We went from what we thought was probably just a sign sinus infection to a benign, but potentially life altering, brain tumor. Suddenly it became a, something that I, that I could take and make worst case scenario out of.

Ric Shields (06:37):

Well, wait, you said something he had not said before. “Life altering.”

Shawna White (06:40):

Yeah. So, what some of the complications that became, although it was benign, they were also very clear to say, “Hey, benign doesn't mean harmless. Benign tumors kill just as much, just as often, especially in the location that his was in.” And so, we knew after going to the initial neurosurgeon's appointment of all the possible outcomes that could go through. And when we started to discover things like it could potentially alter the way he spoke or it could potentially alter his ability to do certain functions. And you're looking at it going he makes his living speaking, and you're telling me that speaking may not be an issue, may not be an option anymore for him, it became really big and scary really fast.

(07:34):

I think it is one of those things that you almost have to put it in light terms because it got so scary and so and so dark of what was going to happen. You know, our children were young, they were in early elementary, Crosby was in preschool, actually, he was four. Avery was nine. And I was at that point in time, a stay-at-home mom, and you're telling me that this could alter his career path, that we could suddenly go from having all these hopes and dreams to maybe none of that's going to work out and life is going to look really different. Hmm. And so scary is probably the best word that I could think of.

Ric Shields (08:17):

How long was it from the time the tumor was discovered until you were scheduled for surgery?

Brian White (08:24):

It all happened pretty quickly. Once they discovered it we consulted with a neurosurgeon here in Tulsa. We looked at a couple options out of town and really felt like the Lord was directing us away from that. Met with a second neurosurgeon here in Tulsa and we're really, really happy with him. So, we had let's see, I was told about it on St. Patrick's Day, so that's March. And I had surgery on May 5th. That happened all pretty quickly from the time we found out I had a tumor until it was removed.

Ric Shields (08:55):

There's a lot of preparation that has to take place before brain surgery. So actually, this speaks to the gravity of the issue that they got on this right away and moved on it quickly. It's been eight years, but you're my guest on this podcast, so it's obvious the surgery was at least somewhat successful. I, this looks pretty successful, but let's go back to the time of the surgery. What happened was, was it a one and done deal, or is there more to the story?

Brian White (09:23):

They were really successful in removing the tumor. There was a lot of discussion about whether they would just try to shrink it down and debulk it to stay away from, because it was growing on the lining of the brain. It was interacting with a bunch of nerves that go through the ear hole in your brain and control your face and your eye, eye closing and your throat and vocal cords. But they were able to get most of the tumor. They said I was tumor free at the end of the surgery, but there was some damage to the nerves, some of those nerves. So, the real concern was that I wouldn't be able to close my eye, but that the facial structure was really good. But what I ended up with is a paralyzed vocal cord and an inability to swallow, which is a really strange feeling when they gave me some ice chips and said, “Swallow this,” and I just couldn't do it.

(10:14):

I couldn't swallow. That then led to not being able to swallow properly, led me to kind of aspirate some stuff, get some stuff down in my lungs, and I developed pneumonia. So, I ended up with a rather extensive hospital stay. I was in the hospital for a month trying to recover. And even after recovery, after getting out of the hospital, I couldn't really talk and I couldn't swallow. So, I was tube fed for about three months, and we waited a full year to see how my vocal cord would recover and how it would respond to, to speech therapy before having a second surgery to help correct my voice.

Ric Shields (10:50):

You're listening to the DoorWays® Ministry Network podcast. My name is Ric Shields, and I'm joined on this episode with my friends Brian and Shawna White, who discovered that Brian had a brain tumor after experiencing loss of hearing in his left ear and problems with balance when he is just 40 years old. Following an apparently successful surgery to move much of the tumor you were unable to swallow, you could only whisper when you talked. Intense therapy helped with the swallowing, but your vocal cords are still paralyzed. Again, I don't mean to cheapen the word by saying it twice, but this is pretty scary. So, an important part of your job involves speaking. What was going on in your head, Brian, other than the tumor?

Brian White (11:33):

Yeah, <laugh>. There was some skull healing in my head. This is when it really got real for me. Up until that point, I was, I was pretty naive. I just kind of thought, well, it just kind of happened to me. But it was in the, it was afterwards, kind of left in the wake of it when it was really apparent that it was affecting my ability (to speak). I'm primarily a preaching pastor. It's what I do. It's the primary role. And so, it really limited that, it was very hard for me. The people at the church were extremely patient with me. I could speak and found a way, but I had a really gravelly voice that that didn't have much volume at all. And that's when it started to get really frightening. I spent a lot of time just waiting for people to realize that I wasn't good enough and that I couldn't do what needed to be done.

(12:20):

So, there was a lot of discouragement and concern in that season. That was a really difficult season. But we were encouraged and God was so good to us. After about a year, we were able to go and do another surgery that moved the paralyzed vocal cord over so that the one that still worked could make contact with it, which increased the volume and the quality of my voice tremendously. And we had a great team that worked with us on that. And at that point it really felt like I was starting to kind of get, get myself back together. The immediate effects of it kind of wore away a little bit. But God was still teaching us some or teaching me some important lessons.

Ric Shields (13:02):

Shawna, what were you and your kids thinking? What was your main concern here?

Shawna White (13:06):

The kids, I can't speak for the kids at the time. They were, Crosby was little enough to just not really fully understand why he couldn't go see his dad. You know, he, most of the time that he was in the hospital, they couldn't see him because he was in ICU and they were below age and, and at there were points in time where he was not in a shape to see them quite as much. I can say that for me, it made everything very uncertain. Up until that point in time, life was kind of sure and we knew what was going to happen, and then suddenly it felt like everything was in jeopardy. And I wasn't sure where the next steps were going to be or what they were going to include. I just knew that they seemed really scary.

(13:54):

 We had fantastic support from family, people from the church, things like that. But when it really came down to it, I just wasn't sure what life would look like, what I was going to get back after surgery. I didn't know who was going to be coming out of surgery. I didn't know if it was going to be the same man or if it was going to be something dramatically different.

Ric Shields (14:15):

So, you mentioned there was a follow-up surgery and also a surgery to fix that vocal cord. So now you do have stronger speech or more volume in your speech, I should say. Shawna, is there any reason to be concerned going forward about a regrowth of this tumor?

Shawna White (14:33):

These types of tumors do come back. We know that there are different grades that they call it; his particular grade, he has a grade two or had a grade two tumor. Those tend to have a little bit more activity than some of the other grades of tumors. So, while there is the concern, we also know that we are on a path that we know it's a possibility, and so we can continue to check. So, it never is far from our brain or our thoughts, I should say, never far from our thoughts that we need to keep him with the surgeons and, and follow the plan of regular MRIs and really watching symptoms so that we know about. And being careful that we aren't behaving in a way that could potentially put us at further risk for it coming back. So, concern, I'm not too worried at this stage of things that it's going to come back mostly because we're watching it so closely that if it does, it certainly is easier to take care of than it was the original diagnosis.

Ric Shields (15:42):

So, Brian, do you think about this, too? I'm assuming you do. I don't know if it keeps you awake at night or, or if it changes the way you think about things or plan for things. What do you think about that?

Brian White (15:52):

You know they told us after the surgery, the surgeon said, “Well, you know, we, we said, you're tumor free.” But he said, “I was in there, I saw it, I know there's still bits of it in there.” And he said, “You're going to have to deal with it again.” And so, I kind of thought, oh, in 5 or 10 years, we'll deal with this again. And it was about four years, three or four years in, they did a MRI and they said, “Why don't you come in and see the doctor?” Which was really frightening. And we went in to see him and he said, Oh, it, the, the phrase they used is “it wiggled. The little bit that's left, kind of wiggled.” And they said, you know, when an MRI cuts and slices and it's irregularly shaped, it may have just cut a different slice.

(16:31):

So, it might be growing a little bit. It might not be, but they said, “We can do CyberKnife, which is targeted radiation.” So, we said, let's do it. We're going to have to deal with it eventually, let's deal with it. So, we did that, and that's really amazing. And it's amazing what they can accomplish and how far they've come with technology.

(16:48):

And in the MRI following that, they said, yeah, everything's stable. There's no changes. And at that point, I really felt like I could set it down, like the tumor was done. And so, we want to stay with the MRIs and keep and remain diligent. But I really, following that CyberKnife, I really felt like, “Okay, I'm done with this,” that the, that story is finished so that there's a real sense of relief for me that I'm not worried.

Ric Shields (17:15):

Ministry marks us often. We're able to look back and find important lessons that we can use to help guide our future or help others on their journey. Shawna, what have you learned that you can share with us to encourage others?

Shawna White (17:29):

I think one of the top things is that a crisis of faith doesn't necessarily mean an ending of faith. It just means that you're trying to figure some stuff out. And this, for me, was a point in time where I had to look and go, at this thing called faith. Really what I want to do and what I want to be? Because up until this point, God had kind of behaved in a way that was expected, and suddenly we were in a position where he was moving in our lives in a way we didn't see, and quite honestly didn't think was very fair for me. It was a matter of being able to really get honest about some of those emotions that you have when God behaves in a way that you don't see coming.

(18:14):

So, when you're angry, it's okay. He's, he's a pretty big God. He can tolerate a lot and tolerate a lot of anger and a lot of questioning and a lot of not sure if you want to follow. And for me, it was this idea that just because I was not, that life was not going the way I wanted it or that I expected it to go, it was going to be okay. God was still faithful, and all I needed to do was stay as close as I possibly could to him, because that was the safest place I learned to be really honest with God about what I was facing instead of making him this pretty little God that solved all the problems and got real honest with him and also said, “I'm going to stay as close as I can because that's safest.”

Ric Shields (19:00):

We're calling this series of episodes series episode Divine Interventions, and we've spoken about medical interventions and the assistance of friends. But is there a divine intervention story here, and is there a story that you believe will help others along their way and their journey?

Brian White (19:18):

Yeah, there's a couple things. For me, the physical part of it just happened to me. My family went through it, but it just happened to me. And so, the physical part wasn't the difficult part. It was in the wake of it, it was the feeling of disappointment and being undone, that really hit me.

(19:35):

I finally had to go and talk to a Christian counselor and go and talk to him because I was just having a hard time navigating some things. And just the disappointment and that feeling of not being good enough. And the vocal inability really hit home with who I am as a pastor, as a preacher. And that really started to undo things. And I really feel like God undid me. I love the YouTube videos where they find an old fire extinguisher and take it all apart and restore it and shine it up, and then put it back together.

(20:07):

And I really feel like God did that to me, that since, since my life stopped, he kind of took me apart and said, “Hey, there's some things here that, that the physical tumor wasn't the only thing that needed to be removed.” There were some things in my spirit that needed to be worked on. And I went through a long process, several years process of kind of allowing God to challenge what I believed about him and what I believed about myself. And that's been a really, that was a really difficult journey.

(20:32):

But there were always moments where it felt like, “Oh, this is what God is doing.” And I was turning corners, and I feel very much transformed by that power. It was a path I didn't expect to take, but it was good. I tell people since that surgery, I tell people all the time, “I don't know why God is asking us to walk the path He asks us to walk. I just know He walks with us.”

(20:55):

I'm confused when I go to the hospital and someone is sick, and I want God to heal them. I grieve that, but I know God is with them and I don't have to understand Him. And then another kind of really crisis moment, I remember I was driving in my car, kind of dealing with all of this feeling of being unworthy and not good enough. And I remember talking, praying, saying, “Jesus, you remember the story that you told the parable about the landowner who came and looked at the tree that didn't produce any fruit. And he told the gardener, ‘Cut it down.’ And you said that the gardener said that he would fertilize it. Give me a year, let me fertilize it and it, and then come back. And if it still doesn't have fruit, we'll cut it down?”

(21:35):

And I said, “What happens, Jesus, if after a year I still don't have any fruit?” Because I just felt so unfruitful and I was worried that even after this I wouldn't be. And Jesus said to me, “So, you think I'm bad at my job as the gardener who's going to fertilize?” And I said, “Well, no, I would never, no, no, that that's what I'm worried about. I'm worried that you're not good enough to fix me.”

(21:55):

And what I realized is God is really good at his, Jesus is really good at his job, and there is no place that you can end up that you'll be too far away. There's no situation where you'll be too broken. There's no situation where you can be so far away that God can't come and rescue you and transform you. And so, the Bible tells us that God's plans are higher than ours.

(22:16):

And I never thought that this would be the journey, but this is the journey that God brought me on. And it is a good journey. It was difficult. It was hard. It was at times, it felt like it would completely break me. And maybe it did. But that's what God needed to do. He needed to break me apart so he could get deep down in and make the changes he needed to make. And I really feel like God has put me back together stronger and better. Jesus is really good at his job and he can rescue us. And whether it's physical healing or the emotional, spiritual healing that comes with it, God has been very, very good to me. And I am, I'm so gracious that he's wise and kind.

Ric Shields (22:58):

I hope you really heard some of Brian White's last comments. He said his journey was difficult. “It was hard at times. It felt like it would completely break me, and maybe it did, but that's what God needed to do. He needed to break me apart so he could get deep down in me and make the changes he needed to make.”

(23:19):

Maybe your journey is really hard too. It may truly hurt, and you feel like you are at your breaking point. The Apostle Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 12:9, that Christ's "power is made perfect in weakness." The Message Version reads like this, "My strength comes into its own in your weakness."

(23:40):

That's the power of surrender. Give to God your disappointments, your pain, your frustrations, your broken hopes, and allow him to work in you for his glory. Things may look different going forward, but you'll be able to look both backward and forward from a new perspective.

(23:58):

Would you allow me to pray for you? Father, we submit ourselves to your care and to your plans so that you may be glorified among all people. You are good. And we place our trust in you to work your will in us. Amen.

(24:16):

I'd like to hear from you this week. Please drop me an email at info at DoorWays.cc and let me know how the Lord has intervened in your life and your family or in a situation where only he could make things work. I look forward to hearing from you and to you joining us next week. Thanks for listening.