"What Evangelism is Not" with Kristi Northup

In this podcast episode, Ric Shields discusses the concept of evangelism with guest Kristi Northup, a lead pastor and worship leader at Saints Community Church in New Orleans. They explore the misconceptions and challenges of evangelism, emphasizing that it is not about achieving conversions but about genuine relationships and living out one's faith authentically. 

Kristi shares her experiences of ministering during Mardi Gras and the importance of presenting a humble and consistent Christian witness. She highlights the need to rebuild trust and make evangelism about Jesus and His message rather than cultural Christianity.

The episode concludes with practical advice on how to naturally incorporate faith into conversations and the significance of offering prayer and support to others.

Transcript

TITLE: “What Evangelism is Not”
GUEST: Kristi Northup
Season 3, Episode 53

Ric Shields (00:00):

Have you ever struggled with the concept of evangelism? Ever wondered what to say or when to say it? Well, so have I, and it's likely that I speak for most of us. Come to find out it's not about notches on a belt, the activities you're involved in or not involved in, and it really may be more simple than we've come to believe. “What evangelism is not.” That's the title of this episode. Let's commit to learning and growing together as we listen in.

(00:37):

Welcome to our podcast. I'm your host, Ric Shields, and I'm the director of the DoorWays® Ministry Network. I'm pleased to have Kristi Northup joining me on this podcast. Kristi and her husband Wayne and their three kids live in New Orleans, Louisiana, where they founded Saints Community Church nearly 14 years ago.

(00:55):

In addition to being a wife and mother, Kristi serves alongside of Wayne as a lead pastor and worship leader at the church. She's also a singer and songwriter and has distributed three CD albums and written scores of songs. She's also a frequent contributor to Influence Magazine. Kristi is an amazing woman. I'm a bit partial to her since, okay, she's my niece. Kristi, thanks for joining us.

Kristi Northup (01:20):

Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here.

Ric Shields (01:22):

Kristi, you know, I know your father Mike Shields pretty well. Obviously, we grew up together. But I remember when Jesus got ahold of Mike's life as a teenager. Little known fact, he came into my bedroom shortly after committing his life to Jesus and apologized for not treating me well. Then he said something to the effect of, “We have to stick together Ric and really follow after Jesus.”

(01:44):

Now, the gift of an evangelist became very evident in his life at that time and continues these many years later. He and your mother, Mona, served as pastors, then missionaries, then statewide, youth directors for the Assemblies of God in Minnesota in the early nineties. They took you and your sister to serve with them as missionaries in Chile for 10 years and did evangelism outreaches there. Currently they serve as the directors of a large ministry in Latin America that provides postgraduate training programs for ministers.

(02:12):

All of that to say you grew up and modeled your life after what you saw lived in front of you. You and Wayne have been evangelists and ministers for years. I recall that Wayne started ministering in New Orleans during Mardi Gras in 1998 and you came along a couple years later, is that right?

Kristi Northup (02:30):

I did. He came in started coming in 1998, just watched the altars at the college we were at, and brought a van full of 12 on fire people and they led like 60 people on the Lord to the Lord on the streets that year. Then he came back the next year and they had like, I don't know, like 80 people and then by the time we were getting engaged in 2000, there was like 280 that came <laugh>. It was crazy. Yeah.

(02:57):

So, my mom said, “You know, you should probably go with this guy and go see what he's doing, if this is something you think you're going to be a part of.”

Ric Shields (03:05):

Yeah. So why did you choose to go during Mardi Gras? It seems like such a difficult celebration to minister in.

Kristi Northup (03:13):

It is not an easy place or an easy setting, but we've just tried to mostly help people. It's like a lab, like learn how to share their faith in a context where they speak the language and they can just work on sharing their faith.

Ric Shields (03:30):

Well, you took teams there for several years. Any idea how many team members joined you on those outreaches?

Kristi Northup (03:36):

We think we had between four and 5,000 that came all the way up until 2020 was actually the last year that we did it, and most of those were young adults, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22. And so it was thousands of young adults that came with us and just learned how to share their faith, learned how to move in the gifts, and just many of them had really divine appointments happen and it's been cool.

Ric Shields (04:03):

And I've been there with you during Mardi Gras. What's interesting is that not all of the people that you reach are from New Orleans. In fact, many of them are in New Orleans; they're there for the party and they go home afterwards. So it's not a matter of “Have we been growing big churches in New Orleans because of Mardi Gras?” The reality is we've been reaching a lot of people because of Mardi Gras.

Kristi Northup (04:23):

Yeah. It's, you know, especially during that season and then in that particular area that we've done most of our outreach ministry. In the French Quarter is almost entirely people from other parts of the country or other parts of the world really.

Ric Shields (04:37):

I've often said to people when they say, “Why go to Mardi Gras?” And I remind them that scripture says, “Where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more.” And during Mardi Gras sin bounds.

Kristi Northup (04:51):

It does, and you know, it's different in different parts of the city, but for us, we continue to do it for a few reasons. One is the hostile nature of a lot of the outreach that happens here. We just felt like it didn't really represent the heart of God and we just wanted to have something that showed the city that maybe a different view of God.

(05:14):

And then also that I, it's important for us to see that and connect with it and really be reminded that like, this is our city, this is what it's built on. This is the brokenness that people come here to live. And it's the reality of where we are. So, we still try to go out and do street ministry during Mardi Gras, even if like most of our ministry is not, you know, in that area in particular anymore.

Ric Shields (05:40):

Well, in addition to Mardi Gras, you and Wayne crisscrossed the USA and you administered in other countries and youth and adult evangelistic meetings. Why did that stop? It seemed like it was going so well.

Kristi Northup (05:50):

It was, you know, really we had always wanted to church plant and after [Hurricane] Katrina we did a whole lot of relief work. Sent a lot of teams and just felt like the Lord was revealing to us that, I mean, if we were going to church plant, why would we do that anywhere but New Orleans? So, we wanted to plant and we wanted to not have, you know, one foot in and one foot out.

(06:11):

And so, we hung up most of the traveling, the preaching camps and conventions and school assemblies and all that. But I mean, it definitely laid the foundation for us for planting Saints Community Church, and that's been our main thing ever since.

Ric Shields (06:25):

That's a big change. And that took a big step of faith because you had some, you're receiving income from these camps and things where you went and spoke. Suddenly you're not speaking at those camps, you're not traveling and your income had to take a pretty serious hit. That's a big step of faith. What did it take? Think about it, think deep. What did it take to make that decision?

Kristi Northup (06:51):

I think it took some really specific words from the Lord and confirmation from people that mattered to us. I mean, my parents, our pastor, just having a sense that like everybody was on the same page and that the Lord just confirmed it in ways over and over. Because I'm not saying you'd have a word for everything. Sometimes, you know, I mean, when Paul saw the man from Macedonia, I mean, he walked like hundreds of miles and he never found him. But, you know, so sometimes like when you have a word like “expect tribulation,” but I'd really rather just go with the peace most of the time.

(07:28):

But in that situation, like we really did specifically feel like we'd heard from the Lord that this is what we were supposed to do. So, what made it work was a long runway. I mean, we were planning about 18 months out and we ended up, you know, we just carefully planned the sale of our house, transitioning off, raised as much money as we could, and then we jumped in and it was even harder than we had expected, and we did what we had to do.

(07:53):

I mean, I worked at Starbucks. I worked in banking. I had never, never worked in food service. Like we did what we had to do and we're still here. So pretty grateful to the Lord. He has opened a lot of doors. But it was, it's been a faith walk every single day.

Ric Shields (08:09):

Let me take a moment, Kristi, to remind our listeners that feedback is important to us. I know I say this every week, and I hope you really believe me when I say that. If you have a suggestion for a guest or for a topic, please let us know. You can drop me an email at info at doorways dot cc and we'll work on incorporating that topic or guest into our podcast schedule. We would really appreciate both your feedback and your input.

(08:31):

My name is Ric Shields and I'm joined on this episode with Kristi Northup, a wife, mother, singer, songwriter, author, and lead pastor with the husband Wayne at Saints Community Church with two locations and Bell Chase and Metairie, Louisiana.

(08:45):

We've spoken about the gift of evangelism that was modeled to her and about how she's found that to be incorporated into her ministry too. But tell us, Kristi, what does that gift of evangelism look like to you today? Maybe it's different than what it looked like 20 years ago. What does it look like today?

Kristi Northup (09:02):

I think it's very different than it was even just 20 years ago. I mean, 20 years ago there was still a better understanding in the culture of the Bible could reference, you know, verses that were fairly well known or at least concepts, ideas, people, and people kind of had a general understanding of what that was. In a lot of parts of the country, I think we are in the middle of a really serious reckoning about what church Christianity, what all of that means in our culture.

(09:33):

And so, evangelism where even 20 years ago there was, it was a big part of churches and faith, there's really been a movement away from it. And that doesn't mean that there's less need or that there aren't people that are still hungry and still seeking. But I think a few things have happened. One is Christianity has, American Christianity, has kind of embraced this ideal of, it looks like this, it looks a certain way, it sounds a certain way.

(10:09):

And we've, we've made Christianity about a lot of things about, you know, the types of relationships they're in, the, the types of activities that they do, the way that they vote, the type of neighborhood they live in. They, there's just all these things that people associate as being something Christian or not being something Christian, but that has not necessarily drawn more people to Jesus, which is actually what Christianity is about.

(10:35):

And I'm not saying that those things aren't important and that they aren't biblical and that they aren't things that people can eventually grow in. But I think part of the key to evangelism now is a few things. It's getting outside of this idea of cultural Christianity and getting back to Jesus.

(10:55):

So, I think that's one of the pieces. And then the other piece that's made evangelism difficult is that there was all these, there were several methods that we were still using even in the early 2,000’s.

(11:07):

You know, Ray Comfort had his method of evangelism. You know, he made his movies with Kirk Cameron, we had Evangelism Explosion and, and we had the ABCs and like these things that. Like we taught kids from the time they were little, just this simple kind of tricks, conversation starters, those types of things. And, and we moved away from those methods, which was not a bad thing because that just doesn't really quite explain it.

(11:30):

But the problem is that now people don't know where to start. They just don't have any idea how to get into a faith conversation or how to bring it up or how to work it in. And so, what we have really tried to emphasize is just a clear understanding of what Christianity is.

(11:47):

If you ask a believer, “What is Christianity? What is it about to you?” you might get 50 different responses from pe 50 people sitting in the same church. Christianity is about a person and an event; it is about the person of Jesus and the event of his death and resurrection from the dead and his death on a cross and his resurrection from the dead.

(12:10):

And so, when we understand that, that disarms a lot of controversy, a lot of anger, frustration, hostility, because that's very simple and it's very hard to, it's, it's just not worth arguing. And even people who are hostile to Christianity, hostile to church evangelical or some type of, you know. A lot of people from that say that they're atheists often come from some type of Christian background and experienced hurt or those kinds of things. But Jesus is actually somebody who people typically don't really have a problem with, a lot less than what Christians assume. Jesus is disarming, he's humble, he's kind, he's angry when he needs to be. He is just, he is, he just is just the greatest human being that ever lived.

(13:05):

And so, when we really just get back to Jesus and who he is and what he did, that is like disarming and very simple. So, we kind of, we kind of start there.

Ric Shields (13:19):

So, is that how you're modeling evangelism?

Kristi Northup (13:22):

Yeah, I would say, you know, at the moments that we're able to have conversations with people, faith conversations like that, that is where we start. That's what we say. I think beyond that, there's a tremendous amount of broken trust. Some of them are very real reasons. Others of them are just kind of caricatures of what people think Christianity is.

(13:44):

Many, many people where we are have really truly never known a genuine believer. I mean, we are in an area that is about 90% Catholic and by Catholic, very nominal. They don't have the same kind of baggage that you have in the Bible belt where it's like, evangelical church hurt is different than Catholic church hurt. But regardless, there's just a lot of broken trust. So, a lot of it is like, it's a long game. It's a long game of consistently living what you believe, showing people that you are, who you say you are when you screw up, which we inevitably do. Going back. Apologizing. Humility. Like not, you know, seeing our faith through the lens of like, “Well, we have, you know, rights.” Yes, we do. And yes, Paul did, too. He also <laugh> like experienced prison floggings, you know, and  beatings, stonings.

(14:40):

I think a humble approach to our faith, to people that don't share our faith is really important. And not just presenting it as “Well, you're such a loser because if you don't know this, you can't be free.” I mean, all of that is true, but it's like presenting it in a humble way and just living in a humble way that like, yeah, we can actually learn something from people that don't know the Lord and we can have friendships and relationships and, and be in people's lives and still be dedicated, on fire Christians.

(15:12):

So that trust is a long game. And I think helping believers understand that it's not about the notch on the belt and scoring a conversion. It's like my neighbor who works for, you know, a guy who owns seven strip clubs. She ran all of the finances. We walked the neighborhood for a long time, and whether or not she ever comes to the Lord, she moved now. Like regardless, she's my friend and I'm there for her and I've learned things from her. And so that relationship is not based on her response to the gospel. It's just a relationship.

Ric Shields (15:52):

I've read recently a quote. You know, the problem today is that we listen to respond instead of listening to understand. And that's often what we've done in evangelism, too. We've listened until we can get something back in and pound on them rather than listening to understand and care. And I think that's a big difference.

(16:13):

I went to your website saintscommunitychurch.com, and I saw a video with you and Wayne. And I really liked this model that you said, “We're reaching imperfect people to follow a perfect Jesus.” So how do you do that?

Kristi Northup (16:28):

That really came from a book that we read right around the time we were planting called “No Perfect People Allowed.” And you know, some of it, the topics have changed, but it, it was very helpful to us to just let people be who they are and reach them in that process.

(16:44):

So you may have heard this, but like, it can be kind of a catchphrase, but it really is true. We really do let people belong before they believe, whether they believe or not. They can come, they can come to Saints Community, they can be part of the community. They can attend, they can go to small group.

(16:59):

I mean, we have a Hindu lady that's been coming for two years or so. And when I say she comes every time the doors are open. I mean, she comes to Friday morning prayer. We've prayed with her, you know, many times. But like she's in a small group. She's in relationship.

(17:11):

We've just put too many strings on, even just outside of the church. I don't have the expectation that someone who does not share my faith shares my values. So, because of that, it really frees me to love them and them, to like be who they really are and just open up my heart to them that is different than believing in Jesus. So, what the hope is that people come to a place where they believe, they believe that Jesus came, lived as a person, came from heaven, and gave his life for us, and was resurrected from the dead. And when people begin to believe Jesus and who he is, and, and then we humbly submit everything that we are, everything that we aren't to him, that begins the process of becoming like Jesus.

(18:01):

So that's really kind of the, you know, what we're, what we're trying to hopefully see people do because that's where they really find freedom. And that's where they find healing and learn how to be in healthy relationships and learn how to be people of integrity and all those things. So, you know, letting them belong and then really presenting a genuine gospel and then discipling people to become like Jesus.

Ric Shields (18:27):

I'm confident there are people listening to this podcast, Kristi, that don't know how to share their faith with somebody. It could be a friend, it could be a coworker or a neighbor, family member, but they aren't sure or they lack the courage to share their faith. But I know people are just, they're afraid or just unable to figure out how to do it.

(18:45):

As we conclude our time, maybe give us some ideas, some simple steps of just how to do that. And then maybe pray that the Lord will give them the words, the confidence, the opportunity for such an important conversation to take place.

Kristi Northup (18:58):

You know, I think a couple really simple things. One is I had someone tell me this years ago, and boy, it sure helped me. She said, “You know, I just always talk about the Lord, like people know him.” <Laugh> That was, that just helped me so much. And I do that all the time. I'll just say, “You know, I just wasn't sure. And I just felt like the Lord really showed me”, and “Man, God has been so good to us”, or just talking about him, like people know him, made it easier for me to just start kind of putting my toe in the water and start talking about God all the time because it just flows out of me. It's just part of who I am.

(19:31):

And then the other thing is like, just offer prayer. We don't know all the solutions, all the answers, but sometimes in just in prayer, like God can really reveal himself and show himself. And so I often, especially when I don't know what to do, I don't know what to say, I just offer to pray for people. If I'm, you know, was with coworkers, I offered to pray. If I'm, you know, at I was at the grocery store last week and the, I just could tell that the lady behind the cash register was just on the verge of tears. And so, I just said, “What? Tell me what's going on?” And she said, “My husband is doing drugs.” Eyes just welled up with tears.

(20:06):

And I just reached across, grabbed her hand, and just quietly prayed like a 15 second prayer. And you know, that just makes it easier to start. Just living our faith without it being this like worked up. Like I got to have this big conversation just kind of easing into it and it just kind of becoming a more natural part of what we say and what we do.

Ric Shields (20:27):

It's so much easier to go back a few days later and say, “Just want to let you know I've been praying with you the last, or praying for you the last few days.”

Kristi Northup (20:33):

Yes.

Ric Shields (20:34):

“How are things? How are things going?” It just opens that door in a whole new way.

Kristi Northup (20:38):

Yes, for sure. Lord, I just thank you for the people that have been listening to this this long because there's something in their heart that they want to share. And I just pray that you would help them to extend themselves in friendship and pursue friendship with people who don't know you and be friends with them just because. And that they would just begin to just mention you and talk about you like people know you, and that you would really open up to find appointments.

(21:10):

I pray that people would be so pleasantly surprised by which people that seemed impossible would really actually want to talk about this and want to come to a relationship with you. And I just thank you because you are the one who does it, Lord, we aren't. We don't convict. We aren't the Holy Spirit. You do it and you, you give us the words and you give us the gifts.

(21:33):

And I just pray that people would just begin to step out and, and just offer Jesus. Just Him. Lord, I just ask it in your name. Amen.

Ric Shields (21:47):

Thanks for joining me. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Better yet, I hope you were encouraged.

(21:53):

Kristi made a couple of important points. One of the points she made that really resounded with me, and I hope you heard it and can hold onto it. She said, “We need to rebuild trust that has been broken. It's a long game of consistently living what you believe, showing people that you are who you say you are, even when you mess up, which we inevitably do.”

(22:15):

And then here's another point, she said, “We need to help believers understand that it's not about the notch on the belt and scoring a conversion.” That was good. I hope it's been helpful to you, too.

(22:29):

Until next time, here's my prayer for you. May you have rest when you need it, strength when you want it, joy, when you least expect it. May the Lord bless you as you follow after him. Thanks for listening.