*NEW SERIES* Hagar: The God Who Sees

What happens when your life is shaped by the choices of others instead of your own? We begin our brand-new podcast series, Women in Scripture: Unseen, Unheard & Unstoppable, with the remarkable story of Hagar—a woman used by others, driven into the wilderness, and convinced she had been forgotten.

In this episode, Ric Shields is joined by hospital chaplain and ordained minister Vicki LaFave to explore how God met Hagar in her darkest moment and revealed Himself as El Roi—"The God Who Sees Me." Together, they unpack themes of rejection, identity, waiting, God's provision, and the hope that even in our wilderness seasons, we are never beyond God's sight.

Whether you've ever felt unseen, unheard, or forgotten, Hagar's story reminds us that God sees you, knows your story, and is still at work in your life. It's the perfect beginning to a series celebrating the women of Scripture whose lives continue to reveal God's faithfulness, purpose, and power.

Transcript

TITLE: Hagar – The God Who Sees

GUEST: LaFave, Vicki

SEASON: S5, E27

SERIES: Women in Scripture

DATE: June 7, 2026

Ric Shields (00:09):

What if the most honest story in scripture isn't about a queen, a prophet, or a hero, but a woman who is used, discarded, and forgotten? She didn't choose her story, she was pulled into it. She was used to solve someone else's problem and got caught in the fallout of their impatience. And when things got complicated, she was the one who paid the price.

(00:33):

Have you ever been there where your life feels shaped more by what others have done to you than by what you've chosen for yourself? Well, that woman ran, not because she was weak, but because staying hurt too much. She ran into an unforgiving wilderness and it was there in the dust in the silence that something unexpected happened. God showed up and called her by name, "Hagar." This is the story of a woman who thought she was invisible until she discovered that she was fully seen.

(01:10):

I'm joined in this episode by Vicki LaFave, a wife, mother, grandmother, and friend to many. In addition to being a credentialed minister with DoorWays®, Vicki serves as a hospital chaplain at both Hillcrest Medical Center and the OSU Medical Center in Tulsa, Oklahoma. She also ministers to single mothers, widows, and other women, especially those in life altering circumstances. Thank you for your friendship. Thank you for joining me to talk about Hagar. This is going to be great.

Vicki LaFave (01:41):

Thank you, Ric. I'm excited to be here today. I've studied about Hagar a few times, so when you asked me, I was pretty intrigued about it. I think many of us can relate to her story. I know in my life there's been some things that were chosen for me and so I know a little bit about what that feels like and I just think her story is a real interesting one in several ways.

Ric Shields (02:00):

Well, let's start with the story of who Hagar is in case someone doesn't recognize the name, doesn't know she is, and how she entered this biblical narrative.

Vicki LaFave (02:09):

Okay. Well, Hagar is an Egyptian servant in the Bible that primarily we know her from Genesis. She was Sarah's maid servant. She became Abraham's concubine when Sarah got impatient and could not conceive a child. Hagar bore Abraham's first son, Ishmael. But after pregnancy and several years, she and Sarah just had a lot of tension that came between them. And in the Bible, Hagar flees Canaan twice. That also tells us in the story how God meets her both times. And that's very-

Ric Shields (02:38):

In Genesis chapter 16, Hagar is caught in someone else's broken plan. You've already alluded to that. What stands out to you about her situation?

Vicki LaFave (02:47):

First of all, I want to say, obvious comment would be, that in today's time, we would not do what Sarah did. We would not ask someone, our maid or somebody that helped work with us in our home or whatever, to go into the room with our husband and conceive a child. That's just not an acceptable thing in our culture. But in that culture, it was somewhat acceptable. It was very expected for a woman to conceive a child, to give her husband, especially a son.

(03:14):

And so, when that couldn't happen for Sarah, she got very impatient, even though they had been promised a child... God had promised them... she became very impatient. Of course, it was many years - I think she was 67 years old when all this started. And so that's a long time to be patient for an answer to a promise. What I know about the story though with Hagar being a servant, she was supposed to obey.

(03:35):

This was her mistress, her master. And so, she had to obey, suffer some different consequences. And so, it was a broken plan that Sarah had, but it was one that Hagar agreed to. I believe mostly out of obedience. There could have been some pride. She could have felt like, "Hey, I've been asked to do something pretty special by my mistress and for Abraham." Before long that plan just turned awry. And I think both of them found out it wasn't the best plan.

Ric Shields (03:59):

I like what you said. It was a broken plan. It was not very good in the first place. The plan started broken. It didn't start whole. It was bad.

Vicki LaFave (04:06):

Yeah. That's right.

Ric Shields (04:08):

When Hagar becomes pregnant, tensions explode. So, what does this reveal about human nature and identity? I'm especially thinking of the emotions of pride. You mentioned pride, insecurity, and our propensity to compare ourselves to others.

Vicki LaFave (04:23):

Yeah. I think it shows in our human nature that anytime we have a problem, at least for me, I know one of the first things I go is try to fix it. I am the type of a fixer type person. If there's a problem, I always say I'm a "Johnny on the Spot." If there's a problem, I can go there, I can try to help. I want to go there and try to help solve the problem. So that's where I think we find Sarah wanting to give Abraham a child, but she wasn't able to do that, so she decided, "Well, we'll just do this through somebody else."

(04:49):

But when that happens, and especially when it is a broken plan, it doesn't usually pan out the way we want it to. Maybe in the beginning, but I think she became very jealous, very envious of the fact that she couldn't conceive a child, but here she's watching somebody else.

(05:03):

And I know for many people, that's a tough situation here. In today's times, many women are not able to be able to carry a child and so that has to be a hard thing for them to carry as well.

Ric Shields (05:13):

And let me just jump in here and say, not just another woman carrying a child, but a woman who was her slave.

Vicki LaFave (05:19):

Yeah. Right.

Ric Shields (05:20):

She was her servant.

Vicki LaFave (05:20):

Yeah.

Ric Shields (05:21):

And so, this is not a woman who is on par with who Sarai was. This is a woman of a completely different status and yet she is the one who becomes pregnant-

Vicki LaFave (05:33):

Yeah.

Ric Shields (05:33):

... and bears a child.

Vicki LaFave (05:35):

Yeah. And yet Sarah asked her to do that. So, she asked-

Ric Shields (05:38):

Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

Vicki LaFave (05:39):

And that's the way women are. We change our mind a lot. We say we want something and then all of a sudden it's like, wait a minute, this isn't what I wanted.

Ric Shields (05:46):

It seemed like such a great idea, but it really never was.

Vicki LaFave (05:50):

Exactly. And I'm sure she's felt insecure around her and just, she saw Hagar as somebody who got what she wanted, got what Sarah wanted, and Sarah wasn't able to do that.

(06:00):

So, there's also that shame that women carry, that, particularly in that time, she carried shame that she wasn't able to give Abraham a child. And so there was a shame of that.

(06:10):

There probably was some shame of, "Look what I've created. I went and I became impatient with God, so I took it in my own hands. I created this situation." So, there could be some shame with that. Hopefully there was some shame to God that, "Hey, I messed up. I didn't wait on your promise."

(06:26):

But then I also think about Abraham too. I think ... Oh, I don't know this question if you were just talking about Hagar and Sarah, but I also think of Abraham. She went to her husband, "Hey, fix this problem." Which I think maybe not as much today's time, but I respect the man being the head of the house so go to him with a problem and he didn't fix it for her.

(06:45):

He said, "No, wait, she's in your hands. You take care of it." So, he didn't come to her aid, but then at the same time in the same conversation that I've read, she turned and said, "This is your fault." She blames him for creating this situation and yet don't we do that sometimes when it's something we've created, but we want to put the blame somewhere else because we don't want to take responsibility for that."

(07:04):

But then I also have to think about, Hagar. How did she treat Sarah? Who started the poor relationship situation there? And with women, that happens a lot. Girls growing up, girls are hard to raise. I've got three of them. And so sometimes we talk about girls being harder than boys because there's just so many petty little things that girls go through in their relationships with other girls. And so was Hagar so honored that she was chosen by her mistress to do this great thing for the mistress but also chosen to go into Abraham and be able to give him a child.

(07:35):

Did she feel the honor and the respect that really Sarah and Abraham deserved or did she turn to pride that, "Hey, look how special I am and look what I get to do." Or did she start worrying about what's going to happen when this child comes? He's my child who I conceived, I bear this child, yet here's these other two people who are going to take him as their own. So, I think there was a lot of emotions going on with both of them.

Ric Shields (08:01):

I think you're right. There are a lot of emotions, good and bad emotions. Right and wrong emotions. Yeah.

(08:07):

Hager ran away into the wilderness. So, think about that. What does that moment represent to us both emotionally and spiritually?

Vicki LaFave (08:15):

I think emotionally, because of the situation and not being respected or valued by Sarah, I think she felt rejection. We've all had maybe a family member or a friend or just a coworker or whatever where we've received some sort of disrespect or whatever or rejection for maybe a project we worked on or something. And so, I feel like there was rejection.

(08:35):

She probably had a lot of fear. What am I going to do now? She ran into the wilderness, not knowing what she was going to do, but I think just that's the whole thing she was stuck. And I think spiritually when we get in that situation, I believe a lot of times it's a time of testing. It's a time of vulnerability. We become vulnerable. We have nobody else to turn to. In my situation, no one but God. That's where ultimately at the end, that's who I would turn to. But I don't even know that she felt that at that point.

Ric Shields (09:02):

There may be times when people feel like running is easier than enduring.

Vicki LaFave (09:06):

Yes.

Ric Shields (09:07):

Where people today run when life becomes unbearable, whether it's physically or emotionally or spiritually. Where do they run?

Vicki LaFave (09:13):

Yeah. I think people run a lot of places. I think people run to the arms of someone else. They run to a friend. Some people run to alcohol, drugs, those types of things. Some people run to another town, they just move, "I got to get out of this place. I can't deal with these people anymore." Or they even change jobs. "I can't work with these people. I'm just going to ... I don't like this situation that they're putting me through so I'm just going to run." I think some people also just run completely away from God. They blame him for the situation. "My life is, it's just been terrible one thing after another that has happened to me." And so instead of running to him, they run away from him.

Ric Shields (09:48):

You're listening to The DoorWays® Ministry Podcast. My name is Ric Shields and I'm joined on this episode by Vicki LaFave, an ordained minister with DoorWays®, a hospital chaplain, and a woman who ministers to other women in life-altering circumstances. She is a great candidate to speak with us about Hagar and her complicated relationship with both Abram and Sarai, later known to us as Abraham and Sarah.

(10:11):

Genesis chapter 16 introduces a really powerful moment. I love this. God meets Hagar in the wilderness. Why is this so significant?

Vicki LaFave (10:22):

For a couple reasons. In the wilderness, as far as physically, yeah, there was a place where there was nobody else. She could just go run, be all alone, but then, "Where do I go?" And so, in her situation, being a pregnant woman without a spouse and that culture was very unacceptable. So, to think about, "I'm going to go back home"; how would she be accepted? She probably wouldn't have been. There could have been some really severe consequences to that.

(10:47):

And so that was a struggle, like, "What am I going to do?" The significance of God meeting her, one, was it changed the trajectory of what was going to happen on the next path, but I also believe it showed her that God saw her. And the things I've read, we don't know a whole lot about the spirituality of Hagar. So, she didn't run to the wilderness like hopefully I would do and say," Oh, God, please help me." She ran not knowing what to do, but God met her. He found her. He saw her and he spoke to her.

(11:16):

So, to me, that was the significant part is that she wasn't necessarily ... We don't know, but from what we've read, we don't see that she was looking for God, searching, crying out to him, but that he actually saw her and spoke to her. And to me, that's super significant. That says, "Hey, he's watching. He cares about us."

Ric Shields (11:34):

You and I spoke the other night about a video written by Kathy Lee Gifford and Nicole Mullen. The name of the video, and you can watch it on YouTube, it's free to watch. It's called, "The God Who Sees." It's like 12 minutes or something. So powerful. I watched that twice the other night, Vicki, and I'd mentioned it to you too. And that's something I'd like to just invite our listeners if they have a chance to look at that and they'll even get a better understanding of what we're talking about and the impact it has on a person when God sees them.

(12:05):

So, Hagar gives God a name, calls him "El-Roi." The translation of that Hebrew name is, "The God who sees me." Why does this matter so deeply?

Vicki LaFave (12:18):

Like I said, he saw her without her crying out to him necessarily and he saw the situation. He had already seen her, where she had been. So, he knew the backstory and he spoke to her and I think because she was aware that, wow, I thought I was alone here in the wilderness, but there was somebody else watching over me.

(12:36):

And I think for us it's significant because there's times when we feel like running or we feel like we're in a wilderness and we think nobody sees me, nobody cares. But when we turn to God, he's there for us and he tells us that. He says in John 16:33, he says, "In this world, you have troubles but take heart. I've overcome the world." And so, he is the one who sees us. He knows what to do in any situation.

Ric Shields (13:00):

And God tells Hagar to return, not to escape. And it's a little difficult, especially when we're thinking in terms of modern day types of abuse where people need to escape. So, it's difficult. So how do we wrestle with that instruction? How do we discern when it's time to stay, when it's time to leave, and how to trust God in both?

Vicki LaFave (13:22):

The how is the big question? I believe most of us wrestle with that. None of us like to have a situation that doesn't feel good, that we're trying to figure it out. Some of us may be super experienced, some of us may not be near as experienced, but trying to figure that out.

(13:36):

A couple things come to mind for me from what I go to is one of the things I do a lot of times is I go to a very trusted, godly friend, say, "Hey, here's the situation. This is what I'm going through or this is what's been handed to me. Can you give me some good advice?" Now, they don't always have the right answers or the exact answer that we need, but just being able to have a new sounding board to be able to express that to another individual is very helpful. One, it gets us out of our system and we don't feel like we're struggling with it alone.

(14:01):

And even the situation that comes to us, for me, when a situation comes, whether it's a spoken word, a negative spoken word or a situation that comes, I have to go, "Okay, what is truth here? Now, what part of this story is truth? Do I have responsibility in it?" Accept the truth that's for me. And another part that's not truth, then go away from that.

(14:19):

Finding a friend, going to counseling, but also ultimately I just go to God and say, "Hey, here's my story. I've been here before with you. I don't know how to fix it. Let me know." And I ask him for some wisdom because somehow a counselor told me a long time ago when I was trying to take a course in college and she said, "Pray that God will open up that part of your brain to help you do that." And I thought, "I've never thought of that before."

(14:42):

But he does. He cares about all that. So, help me God to have wisdom. Help me to discern what's right or wrong. And then many times I just said, "Give me a little sign of some sort that I know that's the right thing to do."

Ric Shields (14:54):

Hagar was cast out twice. First time she was pregnant. Second time, she had a son. Her son was Ishmael. What stands out to you in this second wilderness moment?

Vicki LaFave (15:07):

Part of it, she was sent out by Abraham and he sent her with food and water and stuff to at least take care of themselves for a while. She was sent out differently. It wasn't by her own choosing. So, there was that kind of thing to deal with in her own mind, but I think he sent her out in the best way possible.

(15:24):

But I also know because she had met God before that hopefully she was trying to rely on him this time. And if not, whether she was or not, because sometimes we forget, God's been with us before, I'm going through something else and the last thing we would think about is, "Oh yeah, maybe I should pray about it." You know, sometimes we try to fix it. But I think for her, where she was in that wilderness again, God sent an angel and told her, "Hey." And this time she was able to hear the voice of God because she had heard it before and she heard from the angel and what God told her to do and then God made promises to her that Ishmael become a great nation. And so, I think-

Ric Shields (16:02):

And blessed her.

Vicki LaFave (16:04):

Yeah.

Ric Shields (16:04):

Blessed her.

Vicki LaFave (16:05):

Yeah, he blessed her. And I think the thing about it is at this point they ran out of water and so she kind of got worried, okay, this baby's going to die. And I can't deal with watching that. So, she hit him and went away. And so, the angel actually said, "God heard the baby." So, God saw the baby as well and he had a plan through her for Ishmael.

(16:24):

I just think that once again, he showed up without her seeking him truly because she was giving up for Ishmael and she's given up for herself. "I'm just going to go away and let him die and I can't deal with this." And then in her distress and in the major wilderness physically and emotionally and physically, God met her.

(16:42):

And so, I think that's the biggest thing is that time and time again, God's going to always be there for us. He's never going to forsake us, totally leave us. He may let us walk through some stuff, but he's going to show up.

Ric Shields (16:54):

And God provides water in the wilderness. We're not just talking about wilderness, we're talking about desert. A desert wilderness.

(17:01):

Is there anything for us to learn here about provision and perspective, you think?

Vicki LaFave (17:06):

I guess it goes back to what I've been saying. There's been times when provision was like a big need for me. The biggest thing for me is to stay faithful in my relationship with God to stay connected, to trust him because I've trusted him before. It's not easy, but do the right things, the things that I know.

(17:25):

So, let's talk about in our society - financial provision. We have to be wise with what we do with our money and we have to be obedient. Some people don't like me to use that word in that context, but to be very faithful with what God's given us. He says he knows what we need. And so sometimes he lets us go a little farther than what we think we should go. But then when he redeems the situation, then we can go, "We know this was God. It wasn't something I was able to do. This was him."

(17:53):

And so sometimes for me, that's why I think he lets me go farther because I need to see that faithfulness come straight from him.

Ric Shields (18:00):

If someone listening today feels unseen or used or forgot, and it could be male or female, either one. What would you say to them from Hagar's story?

Vicki LaFave (18:11):

Aside from the fact that Hagar was a servant who had to follow in a somewhat healthy situation without abuse and all that, she had to follow. Aside from that, what I have taken from this story is to be careful who you listen to, who you ask advice from, make sure it's a godly person, make somebody you highly respect and that you know has your best interest at heart.

(18:31):

I would say be careful how you treat others. I totally believe how we treat others is going to come back to us. It's not always a direct relationship to how they treat us, but most of the time, like they say a soft answer turns away wrath. I believe a kind word, an act of kindness helps those that may not otherwise be kind to us.

(18:50):

Be faithful to God in your distress. Always go to him first. Don't wait around and try to fix it and then go to him but go to him first.

(18:59):

I also think in my life, I've learned to be thankful for the blessings that I have because God has redeemed and blessed me so much. I want to be faithful and thankful. I want to be thankful to him for that, but I also want to be faithful with what he's given me and help me to bless other people.

(19:13):

And then I think the biggest thing that we can get from all of this too is that to know that he sees us and that he doesn't forsake us even when we're going through a time of distress and in the wilderness.

Ric Shields (19:24):

Some of you listening today may feel like Hagar, used, overlooked, pushed to the margins, trying to survive a story you didn't choose. But hear this clearly, just because people have overlooked you doesn't mean that God has.

(19:41):

In Genesis chapter 16, verse 13, Hagar proclaims in Hebrew the words "El-Roi." Translated to English, it means, "the God who sees me." Notice that she didn't say the "God who saw me," neither does she say "the God who will see me." Hagar said, "You are the God who sees me."

(20:02):

Today, right where you are in your wilderness and your questions, in your exhaustion, he sees you and the same God who meant Hagar in the desert is not absent from your desert place. So, before you run again, look again, because his provision might already be closer than you think.

(20:25):

If you benefited from the content of this episode, I hope you'll take a minute to like, comment, subscribe, or forward it to a friend. I think your friend would appreciate it too.

(20:34):

I'd like to give a special thank you to Raymond and Dr. Aletha Oglesby for sponsoring this series on women in scripture with a generous gift. Your gift would also be appreciated and will help to touch others with a love, grace, and hope found in following Christ. Please visit our website at doorways.cc/give for instructions about how you can support this ministry.

(20:58):

I look forward to speaking with Barbie Odom next week about the story of Tamar. Her story is right out of the pages of the 38th chapter of the Book of Genesis. It's a story about power and silence. It's about hypocrisy hiding behind respectability and about what happens when someone refuses to disappear.

(21:20):

I would like to conclude our time together with this blessing from the New Testament book of Jude, the brother of Jesus who wrote, "To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy. To the only wise God, our savior, be glory, majesty, power and authority through Jesus Christ, our Lord, before all ages now and forevermore." Amen.