Zipporah: Protective, Perceptive, Courageous

In this episode of the DoorWays® Ministry Podcast, Ric Shields is joined by attorney and First Assistant District Attorney Joy Thorp to explore the remarkable story of Zipporah, the wife of Moses. Though she appears only briefly in Scripture, her decisive act of obedience during one of the Bible's most mysterious moments may have preserved the mission that led to Israel's deliverance.

Together, they unpack the cultural tensions of her marriage, the strange encounter in Exodus 4, and the powerful reminder that true spiritual leadership begins at home. Zipporah's story challenges modern assumptions about courage, leadership, marriage, and faithfulness, showing that God often works through those serving quietly behind the scenes.

Whether you're carrying unseen responsibilities, navigating difficult family decisions, or wondering if your faithfulness matters, this conversation offers encouragement that God sees every act of obedience, even those hidden from the world's applause.

Transcript

TITLE: Zipporah: Protective, Perceptive, Courageous

GUEST: Joy Thorp

SEASON: S5, E29

SERIES: Women in Scripture

DATE: July 21, 2026

Ric Shields (00:09):

Some women in scripture are easy to overlook because they stand beside larger names. Zipporah was married to Moses, the deliverer, the lawgiver, the man who confronted Pharaoh. But one night in the wilderness, while Moses was silent and apparently powerless, it was Zipporah who stepped into a moment of spiritual crisis and may have saved his life.

(00:31):

That's not the version of faith we usually celebrate because we tend to applaud women for being supportive, quiet, and agreeable. But what happens when a woman must become spiritually discerning, courageous and decisive in the middle of chaos? What happens when obedience becomes uncomfortable and deeply personal? Today we're talking about Zipporah, a woman caught between cultures, marriage pressures, spiritual tension, and a God who refused to be ignored.

(00:59):

Welcome to Women in Scripture: Unseen, Unheard, and Unstoppable. My name is Ric Shields, and I'm the host of the DoorWays® Ministry Podcast. I'm speaking today with my friend, Joy Thorp, who serves as a member of the Board of Trustees of DoorWays®. She's a seasoned attorney with more than 23 years of legal experience, including 16 years in public service and 18 years as a litigator. Ten years ago, Joy joined the Oklahoma Attorney General's Office, eventually leading the Criminal Justice Division and later serving as Senior Deputy Attorney General. In 2022, she was appointed First Assistant District Attorney for Prosecutorial District Number 12. She's married to District Attorney Jack Thorp and is the mother of two smart, beautiful teenagers.

(01:48):

I'm so glad you could join me on this episode, Joy. I initially asked about thirty women to talk me about twelve different characters in this series and received five positive responses. I asked the remaining group members again and heard crickets. I asked you once, and you immediately said, "Yes." Thank you for your enthusiasm and for making time in your schedule to talk with us about Zipporah.

Joy Thorp (02:14):

As a woman, I'm always thrilled when someone wants to discuss women and their roles in the Bible. I loved the idea of discussing a woman who was married to someone in leadership. As you described earlier, I'm the First Assistant District Attorney for Prosecutorial District 12 in Oklahoma. So, I'm in leadership, but I'm also married to someone who's in leadership. And I can tell you that behind every great leader in history is generally someone who is supporting them and loving them through difficult times. And that's what we see with Zipporah.

Ric Shields (02:45):

For listeners unfamiliar with Zipporah, who was she? What do we know about her background before marrying Moses?

Joy Thorp (02:52):

So, Zipporah, which in the Hebrew actually means, "bird." She was a figure in the Bible. She was the daughter of Jethro who was a priest of Midian. She appears primarily in the book of Exodus. She actually meets her future husband, Moses – she and her sisters are watering their flocks – they're harassed by some shepherds and Moses is kind and he helps them get their flocks watered. Ultimately, she tells her dad, Jethro, about this great man who helped her at the watering hole. Jethro invites Moses to her home and ultimately that leads to their marriage.

Ric Shields (03:28):

So, we know that Zipporah was a Midianite woman who married a Hebrew fugitive. What cultural and spiritual tensions may have existed in that marriage from the very beginning?

Joy Thorp (03:39):

First off, Zipporah’s family were Midianites and Moses was born amongst the Israelites, but he was raised as an Egyptian royal. So, I would imagine that their marriage crossed significant cultural boundaries. Zipporah likely grew up in a pastoral Midianite society with its own customs, her own family structures and her own traditions. So, marrying a fugitive and one who God had such huge plans for had to be difficult on that marriage. Moses' calling changed everything in her world and her family's world. And you know, a lot of what we're saying and talking about is speculative. So, when I say that to a certain extent, I think to a regular person, it would be difficult to believe that there weren't significant tensions in that marriage.

Ric Shields (04:22):

Exodus chapter four contains one of the strangest and most intense scenes in scripture where God confronts Moses with intentions to kill him. Zipporah intervenes by circumcising their son. It doesn't all make sense to me, Joy. What is actually happening in that moment?

Joy Thorp (04:39):

So, I actually think after doing some research about Zipporah, I think this is an issue of a huge biblical and scholarly debate. I'm certainly not a biblical scholar and I will tell your listeners that I'm not. But reading it from a layperson's perspective, I think God in Exodus 4:24-26, he's angry with Moses for disobeying him. You know, circumcision was a sign of the blood covenant established between God and Abraham. And if you read the scripture leading up to this passage, God is talking to Moses and he's telling him what to do, what to say to save the people of Egypt. And Moses is arguing with him, like many of us do.

(05:18):

And I also think there's some controversy. It talks about whether or not God was killing Moses. There's some controversy as to whether it's Moses or their son. And so, I think that's interesting that there's some debate as to actually who is God referring to in that particular scripture.

Ric Shields (05:35):

And this is not just about circumcision though. This is a deeper thing. This is about obedience.

Joy Thorp (05:41):

I would agree. Yes. He was not obeying God in his personal life. If you're not obeying God in your personal life or with your family, how are you supposed to go and do this amazing thing that he was going to do on behalf of Israel?

Ric Shields (05:54):

And I've also read that there's some cultural things here where perhaps Zipporah resisted this circumcision on their son because of some cultural background. Moses may have delayed it to avoid conflict with Zipporah. He maybe just got thinking about other things, neglected it. They maybe disagreed about it. Scripture never tells us exactly what that's all about. But in the end, it seems as if this is all about obedience and that if we're not obedient at home, how are we going to be obedient in our public life as well?

(06:26):

Zipporah acted decisively in a crisis when her husband would either not or could not act. What does her response reveal about courage, about spiritual awareness and about leadership within the home?

Joy Thorp (06:41):

So again, I think there's some speculation in any discussion involving this issue because the Bible doesn't go into any great detail. What we know is that she circumcised her son when Moses failed to do it and this action saved the life of her husband or her son. By doing this, she sealed the blood covenant that God had with Moses or God had with her son. She did what her husband wouldn't do. And this influenced a pivotal moment in Israel's history.

(07:09):

If God intended to kill Moses, she helped God's mission that ultimately led to Israel's exodus from Egypt. And I think this action showed, honestly, a spiritual insight on behalf of Zipporah. She knew exactly what to do in that moment and she did it.

(07:23):

And I think the other interesting thing is that during that time, women were not equal to men. And for her to stand up to her husband, which may have been what she had to do in this circumstance, a former member of royalty, that shows some strong leadership and showed that Zipporah had a backbone.

(07:40):

And this takes me back to what we said at the beginning of the podcast, that behind one of the arguably greatest leaders in history was Zipporah who saved her family.

Ric Shields (07:50):

Some more research, and you and I have both been researching this, reading about this and learning about this. I like this though that one individual indicated. It said all of this looks like Moses may have been choosing family peace over obedience to a covenant.

(08:06):

Think about that how that is with us today that it's so easy to avoid difficult conversations, which is something that should have taken place probably long before. It's easy to postpone important decisions and even spiritual decisions. Easy to remain silent about important convictions, and easy to trade obedience for temporary harmony.

(08:29):

Do you ever see that in your home?

Joy Thorp (08:32):

Sure. I mean, I'm married to a leader, a district attorney. I know there are times with both of us when we put off maybe difficult conversations or we're dealing with something difficult in our personal life and we push it off so we don't have to deal with it. But I think in this particular scripture, I think what's important to remember is that our relationship with God is more important than our relationship even with our spouse. And that may have been exactly what God was trying to tell them then is that the covenant with me is more important than your covenant with each other.

Ric Shields (09:03):

This concept that Moses was still learning about leadership, he grew up in the household of Pharaoh. I'm pretty confident there were some leadership skills that were discussed and talked and taught about. And yet now he's learning it in a different way – forty years in the desert.

(09:18):

Perhaps what Moses had originally thought about was that leadership was primarily something you had to do with public influence. But God is teaching him something different than just leadership in public influence. What do you think he was teaching him?

Joy Thorp (09:33):

I think faith and trust in God. I would imagine that Moses grew up with anything and everything that he could need. I mean, he's a royal. And I think that Moses had the tendency to be a great leader. And always you can see based off of the actions of Moses that he was always trying to do the right thing.

(09:49):

But I think the most important thing that Moses needed to learn is that he had to trust God. I cannot imagine being in Moses' shoes where I'm going to have to go in front of a Pharaoh and depend on God to perform all these miracles and do all these things and I'm just blindly trusting in God. I think God needed him to fully trust him in order to know that he was going to go do what he needed to do to save the Israelites.

Ric Shields (10:14):

That and I think also the lesson leadership begins at home. How often do we tend to think that we take leadership and obedience and we mix them up? So, it's easy, especially for people in ministry to say, "Hey, I'm serving, I'm leading, I'm giving, I'm making a difference." And yet at the same time, that does not necessarily mean that obedience is taking place. And we see that on a regular basis in the church today, I think.

(10:39):

Many women today carry the emotional and spiritual weight of their families while trying to hold marriages and children and faith together. So how does the Zipporah's story speak into that reality? And Joy, I think you're a good one to speak about this very clearly. You're a mom and you also hold important positions of leadership. And I think that you can speak really well to this.

Joy Thorp (11:04):

Yeah. I think her actions during this crisis resonates with many women today. Our families as a mom, as an attorney, as whatever you're doing out there, they're constantly under attack. Our job as moms, our spouses are we are there, we're supporting our spouses, we're supporting our children through all of these attacks. But we also have to act decisively. We have to be strong leaders. But many times, we do these things when nobody sees it. We're not celebrated. There's not awards given for all these things that we do in order to support our kids and to support our spouse other than the love from our family.

(11:41):

What I love about Zipporah that you don't see any scriptures about her complaining. You don't see about her talking about the weight of life. Can you imagine being in Zipporah's shoes? You're being completely upended. Your life is completely different.

(11:56):

There's constant uncertainty about what's going to happen, the risks that are going to, they're going to have to take. And frankly, when she married Moses, she didn't know that. She didn't sign up for it. But she did what she needed to do in particular in that time of need when her husband either refused to do it or couldn't do it.

(12:15):

As I was researching Zipporah, it reminded me a lot of a Proverbs 31 woman where she feared the Lord. And in that moment, she feared the Lord and he blessed her. And he blessed Moses for it. And she acted in that moment because she feared God. And I think it's a good reminder to all of us.

Ric Shields (12:33):

You're listening to the DoorWays® Ministry Podcast. If you're enjoying this series, please let us know. You can share, comment, like, follow, or subscribe on whatever platform you're listening to. You'd be surprised how much that helps to get our podcast listed so others can find us more easily.

(12:49):

My name is Ric Shields, and I'm joined on this episode by Joy Thorp, a member of the board of trustees of DoorWays®, and a seasoned attorney with more than 23 years of legal experience. She currently serves as the First Assistant District Attorney for Prosecutorial District 12 in Northeast Oklahoma.

(13:06):

Today, we're talking about Zipporah, the wife of Moses. You've likely heard about Moses. You may have even heard something about Zipporah. We're just trying to unpack a little more about her as we talk about "Women in Scripture - Unseen, Unheard, and Unstoppable."

(13:21):

Joy, Zipporah's words during the wilderness incident we just discussed sound emotional, even a little bit angry. What does this teach us about honest faith and messy obedience?

Joy Thorp (13:33):

So again, we'll say, I think there's some debate as to what exactly Zipporah meant. And we're speculating and opining on her tone because we don't really know exactly. Was she angry in that moment? I think she probably was. But believe that statement was affirming the covenant that God had with God and Abraham. And the blood of my blood, meaning the blood through the circumcision, restored the covenant God had made. She may have been irritated with Moses in that moment for his refusal or his inability to do something. And in her frustration, she had to do what needed to be done.

(14:07):

One of the common interpretations is that the narrative, and this underscores a theme throughout Exodus, before Moses can call Israel to obey God, he himself must be faithful to God's covenant. I think we can all apply that to our own lives in that if he asks us to do something, we have to obey that more than anything. And again, had Zipporah not obeyed, I think history may have been much different.

Ric Shields (14:31):

And there's an uncomfortable truth in all of this too. What makes this story so compelling is that Moses here, the future deliverer of Israel, he's not the hero in this scene. Zipporah is the hero. The person that we would expect to solve the crisis doesn't. And the person we least expect does. And I think that should be a challenge to all of us.

(14:55):

Do you find that often, especially when it relates to women, married women, families, kids, all the responsibilities also work? But women, do they often have to stand up and say, "No, this is not the direction we're going to go. Let's go this way." That ever happen very often, you think?

Joy Thorp (15:13):

It happens all the time. And again, a lot of times women are the quiet voice in the back helping to lead. And again, I'm blessed because I am in a position in my work life where I am in a leadership role. But again, I'm married to somebody and learning about Zipporah in particular interested in me because you have a person who is married to a great leader. And I believe that my husband is a great leader. And I'm obviously married to him. And there are times when I have to quietly tell him, "We're not going to do that. We need to do this. I feel like God is leading us in this way."

(15:47):

But that's what's great about marriage and in particular the world we live in now. Women are not looked at in an unequal type of relationship like they were during Moses' time. And so, it's not as difficult for women to tell their spouses like it was then of, "I'm going to have to take decisive action disregarding what you say."

Ric Shields (16:06):

Okay. So, I'm going to ask this question. When you do that, how does that go?

Joy Thorp (16:11):

So, I have a husband who's very kind and very open and he knows that I listen to the Spirit. I listen to the Holy Spirit. And so, when I do tell him those things, he's generally very open to it. But there are times when he does the same with me. I get focused on something and he'll tell me, "Hey, I feel really strongly about this one way or the other." That's what makes marriage great is you really are a team.

Ric Shields (16:35):

Do you think modern Christian culture sometimes places unrealistic expectations on women to remain silent or passive in spiritual matters? And if so, how does Zipporah challenge that idea?

Joy Thorp (16:46):

Yeah, so I think this was probably the question that's resonated with me the most. In my job as a prosecutor, I prosecuted many people in positions of authority in particular for cases involving child victims. Children who were told to be quiet or they're called liars. I think in the past, women have been told to be silent about things that they have seen. And what's sad is it has especially been very prevalent in the church. However, thankfully over the last many years, women have been able to have a stronger voice.

(17:17):

And that's probably one of the reasons why I like being a prosecutor the most is that I get the opportunity to speak on behalf of those whose voices have been silenced. I love how we can apply what Zipporah did for her family. She's in the shadow of Moses. But again, had she been silent and done nothing, history would've been so much different.

Ric Shields (17:38):

Do you think if Sephora had the opportunity to speak directly to women today who feel unseen, spiritually exhausted or trapped between competing expectations, what do you think she would say?

Joy Thorp (17:50):

I think she would tell them to be strong. I think she would say, "Stand up. Do the right thing. Speak your mind and trust God. Follow his path." I think she would tell women today that a million times over, she would rather do what God wanted her to do than what she wanted to do or what Moses even wanted to do. We have to follow God's path and I think you can see that in Zipporah's actions.

Ric Shields (18:15):

I'm so glad you're able to join me, Joy. Could you please take 30 seconds and help us to put this story of Zipporah into a perspective that'll guide us today?

Joy Thorp (18:23):

Zipporah is honestly an interesting biblical figure who appears only briefly yet leaves a surprisingly deep impression. In just a few verses she demonstrates courage, discernment, decisive action of the critical moment.

(18:38):

The story reminds us that history often turns not only on famous leaders, but also on the people beside them who step forward when something important needs to be done. Moses is remembered as the deliverer of Israel on behalf of God. Yet in these verses, Moses is the one who's in danger. And Zipporah is the one who acts to save the situation.

(18:59):

Sometimes leadership means taking action and sometimes it means receiving help from others. I think as women, we should remember that. And what I took from learning and researching Zipporah was just that, that those in the shadow of someone great are often silent heroes.

(19:15):

Moses was called to undertake one of the greatest missions of all time, yet he may not have even been able to begin had it not been for his own wife. God has a calling on all of our lives and if we listen to him and we follow his word, he will lead us exactly where we need to go. And her taking action ultimately saved Israel.

(19:36):

I know you talked about part of this podcast being not about as prominent figures such as Sarah, Rebecca, or Mary, but her role, Zipporah's role is memorable because she appears at a decisive turning point in Moses's story and performs an action that's essential to the success of this Exodus mission.

(19:55):

Just to summarize, Zipporah's importance comes less at the amount of time she appears and in this text, but it's more from the critical moments in which she appears, especially where she's intervening and she saves her husband, ultimately enabling the Exodus story to continue. It wouldn't have happened, I don't believe, had it not been for his wife.

Ric Shields (20:17):

Zipporah reminds us that some of the most important spiritual battles are fought far from public platforms. There's no crowd, no applause, no spotlight, just a woman standing in the tension between obedience and consequence. Her story forces us to confront an uncomfortable truth. Sometimes the people closest to faith can quietly drift into compromise while still appearing spiritually significant to everyone else.

(20:45):

And maybe that's why Sephora matters so much because God is not merely interested in public callings. He also cares about private obedience. Exodus chapter 4:13 says, "The Lord met him and sought to put him to death." Now that verse is unsettling, but it's also revealing. God took covenant obedience seriously and Sephora stepped into the gap when it mattered the most.

(21:11):

For every woman listening today who feels overlooked, burdened, or spiritually alone, be reminded of this. Heaven sees what happens in the wilderness moments too.

(21:22):

I hope you will remember to like, follow, subscribe, or forward this episode. If it was meaningful to you, I'm confident you may know others who will benefit from it.

(21:33):

I'd like to give a special thank you to Raymond and Dr. Aletha Oglesby for sponsoring this series on Women in Scripture with a generous gift. Your gift would also be appreciated and will help to touch others with the love, grace, and hope found in following Christ Jesus. At our website, doorways.cc, there's a link on the upper right called "Give." I hope you'll notice that it says give and not pay. This podcast has not been monetized. No one has to pay to listen to it and we don't play commercials. Would you consider a gift to help us continue making this podcast possible and join those who are already supporting this effort?

(22:07):

There are moments in history when hesitation costs more than action and when the people who should lead either don't or won't. Join me next week when I speak about one of those moments with Sherry Jackson and the story of Deborah from the Old Testament Book of Judges chapter four. I hope you'll join us.

(22:24):

Now receive this blessing pronounced by Aaron, the brother of Moses that we find in the Old Testament Book of Numbers, chapter six. It's my prayer for you. "The Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make His face shine on you and be gracious to you. The Lord turn His face toward you and give you peace." Amen.